[Bldg-sim] Natural Gas generation of electricity as it relates to EAc1

Bishop, Bill wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com
Wed Apr 21 12:06:31 PDT 2010


James,
 
I would model the fuel cells in the proposed design only, and leave it
out of the baseline. The LEED Reference Guide for Green Building Design
and Construction (for LEED 2009) describes how to handle CHP systems in
EAc1. You may or may not be using the fuel cells for heat but I think
you could argue it is a similar situation. "The baseline building's
heating and cooling plant utilizes the backup energy source of the
design, or electricity if no backup source is present or specified. When
all electricity and thermal outputs (heating or cooling) of the CHP are
used within the design building, the electricity produced is considered
free, as is the produced thermal energy. The input fuel for the CHP and
any additional purchased energy is charged to the design building."
 
Regards,
Bill
 
William Bishop, EIT, BEMP, LEED(r) AP | Pathfinder Engineers &
Architects LLP
Mechanical Engineer
 
134 South Fitzhugh Street
Rochester, NY 14608
T: (585) 325-6004 Ext. 114
F: (585) 325-6005
wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com
www.pathfinder-ea.com
P Please strive to live sustainably.
________________________________

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of James
Hansen
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 2:37 PM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Natural Gas generation of electricity as it
relatesto EAc1
 
A few people asked for me to post what I found on this issue, and here
it is.  Still not 100%, but it *looks* like you can't take credit for
gas-fired fuel cells in EAc1.  As much as they may help with emissions,
electrical power infrastructure, and reduction of time-of-use utility
charges, I think the best you can do is apply for an ID credit (which is
a shame).
 
Although this CIR is from NC v2.1 (before Appendix G even existed), and
although the two paragraphs of the response sort of contradict each
other, it appears that they do NOT allow peak shaving to be accounted
for in EAc1.  I'm not sure whether to model the fuel cells in both the
baseline and proposed, or completely remove them from both...
 
(ID credit under LEED-NC v2.1)
 
5/24/2004 - 
Ruling
The use of a generator for peak shaving is a legitimate energy cost
saving and capacity reduction measure. Identical rate schedules must be
used in both the proposed and budget buildings for energy modeling (see
EAc1.5 CIR Ruling dated 3/24/04). Note that using a time-of-use (TOU)
rate will only capture a portion of the potential benefits to the
project and the environment under EAc1, since the budget building must
also use the TOU rate for modeling purposes.

The peak shaving use of the generator does not count under EAc1. Since
the use of a generator to shave peak demand is not a regulated component
of ASHRAE 90.1, any savings/environmental benefits could qualify as an
innovation credit. Be sure to quantify the benefits. Claims of emission
reductions need to be based on comparison to a reasonable baseline in
your region. Claims made on dollar savings alone should be equal to at
least 5% of the total building energy use (see previous IDc1.1 CIR
Rulings dated 4/17/03 and 8/16/02).
 
 
Would love to be proved wrong!
 
GHT Limited
James Hansen, PE, LEED AP
Senior Associate
1010 N. Glebe Rd, Suite 200
Arlington, VA  22201-4749
703-338-5754 (Cell)
703-243-1200 (Office)
703-276-1376 (Fax)
www.ghtltd.com <http://www.ghtltd.com/> 
 
 
From: James Hansen 
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:16 PM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Natural Gas generation of electricity as it relates to EAc1
 
I think I asked this question a year ago or so, but wanted to see if
anyone had an update on this, as I believe there may have been a recent
CIR that addresses this issue (that I can't seem to find).
 
I'm modeling a building that is fed by an electric service that is
mostly demand based.  The building Owner has decided to use gas-fired
fuel cells in conjunction with natural gas generators to reduce demand
via peak shaving.  
 
Someone mentioned that this might be a no-no as it relates to Appendix G
- that I would need to model the fuel cells and natural gas generators
in the baseline building as well.
 
Does this make sense, and has anyone seen a CIR that confirms this?
 
The client is using fuel cells to reduce emissions, reduce the peak
demand seen by the utility company (thereby reducing their use of
inefficient diesel generators), etc...it doesn't seem fair not to award
a project that wants to do this.
 
Anyone have any input?
 
GHT Limited
James Hansen, PE, LEED AP
Senior Associate
1010 N. Glebe Rd, Suite 200
Arlington, VA  22201-4749
703-338-5754 (Cell)
703-243-1200 (Office)
703-276-1376 (Fax)
www.ghtltd.com <http://www.ghtltd.com/> 
 
 
________________________________

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