[Bldg-sim] G3.1.2.5 Clarification

[James Hansen]

For what it's worth, regardless of what the various publications
actually say, the last 5-6 projects of mine have had reviewers that had
me confirm that when I use DCV in the proposed design, that the baseline
design MUST match the minimum ASHRAE 62.1-2004 (or 07) requirements.

 

So if you don't have DCV (shame on you!), then your baseline and
proposed models can have matching OA, and it can be whatever quantity
you want.

As soon as you incorporate DCV, the baseline model has to go down to
minimum 62.1 rates.  

 

GHT Limited
James Hansen, PE, LEED AP

Senior Associate

1010 N. Glebe Rd, Suite 200

Arlington, VA  22201-4749

703-338-5754 (Cell)

703-243-1200 (Office)

703-276-1376 (Fax)

www.ghtltd.com <http://www.ghtltd.com/> 

 

 

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Karen
Walkerman
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 9:57 AM
To: Grammy
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] G3.1.2.5 Clarification

 

There was a major discussion on this topic a few months ago, although it
may have been on the eQuest list-serve, I don't remember.  Try searching
the archives.

 

The general conclusion was that the current requirements are that the
baseline and proposed design models should have the same ventilation
rates, BUT that this doesn't make that much sense as you could
over-ventilate to the point where there is no added benefit to the
occupants, and major additional energy use.  The discussion was
primarily around LEED EA Credit 1, and there was some correspondence
between the simulation group and the LEED credit chair.  I believe that
they will be looking at modifying this requirement for LEED models in
the future.

 

--

Karen

 

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Grammy <grammy.hkust at gmail.com> wrote:

In my opinion, the exception is means that keep the "design value" of OA
same in both proposed and basline, but use DCV only in proposed.

 

Because DCV can modify OA volume by the number of people in zone, and
the OA requirement is dynamics in simulation - which is too hard to keep
baseline same with, and also should not keep the same, if not where
does the saving come from?

 

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Paul Riemer <Paul.Riemer at dunhameng.com>
wrote:

Section G.3.1.2.5 in 90.1-2007 has added an exception to the "shall be
the same" for models with demand controlled ventilation in the proposed
that is not required by Section 6.4.3.9. 

 

That alone is kind of confusing since it does not address what the
values should be when they are allowed to not be the same. 

 

I think they are trying to resolve the intersection of projects that use
more OA than Std 62.1 and utilize demand controlled ventilation.

The most recent Trane Engineers broadcast promised more changes coming
to this section (as addendum DA?) but I do not have anything published
to reference.

 

Paul Riemer

Dunham

 

 

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Kingsley,
Michael L.
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 7:50 AM
To: Grammy; Jaigath Chandraprakash


Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] G3.1.2.5 Clarification

 

I agree.  Standard 61.1 sets the minimum acceptable ventilation rate.
The design ventilation rate can be higher, and the baseline rate should
be the same as the real design.

 

Best regards,

 

Mike

 

Michael L. Kingsley, PhD, PE, LEED AP | R. W. Beck, An SAIC Company

Senior Engineer/Project Manager

Energy, Environment & Infrastructure Solutions

office: 315.437.1869 x205 | mobile: 315.373.4081

 

________________________________

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Grammy
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 8:38 AM
To: Jaigath Chandraprakash
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] G3.1.2.5 Clarification

 

In my opinion:

 

For LEED, the OA should increase 30% first. This is the propose
requirement.

 

Then for energy model, the baseline model should equal to proposed,
which means the baseline OA is also 30% more than 62.1 requirement.

 

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Jaigath Chandraprakash
<cjaigath at yahoo.com> wrote:

Hello,

 

G3.1.2.5 states that minimum ventilation rates will be the same for
proposed building and baseline building. Does it mean that if my
building design OA rate is increased by 30%, my model will still be
based on the minimum OA required by 62.1 and is still equal to the
baseline building OA? Meaning my proposed building wont be penalized by
supplying more OA?

 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Jaigath

 


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