[Bldg-sim] FW: Energy Model Cost

[Demba Ndiaye]

We all agree that ideally the energy model should guide the design process. Now, this is a final model (which again can be done in 40 hours for someone who is well versed in LEED modeling). There is no shame in accepting a final model job. One has to be realistic if running a business.

If there are time management issues or to improve work procedures, please allow me to suggest the excellent book by Dr Jon Hand of ESRU: The ESP-r Cookbook.

_____________
Demba NDIAYE

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Omar Delgado
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 8:50 PM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Bldg-sim] FW: Energy Model Cost

From: Omar Delgado [mailto:odelgado at enermechpr.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 5:49 PM
To: 'James V Dirkes II, PE'
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost

Thanks everyone for you help! You have been really helpful.
The design phase is (supposedly) almost complete (of course that's rarely the case as we all know).  I still need to see the
mechanical plans, but I know it's a CHW system. I'm not the LEED AP for the project so the documentation and LEED Online
time are out of my scope. Looking at the architectural plans it doesn't seem too complicated if it's a CHW system.

James and Arpan, thanks for the detailed explanations and  advice. The service they are asking for is just to model the building as
designed. Of course, if it doesn't reach the desired level energy-wise I'm sure will have to become an advisor on this part as well
so I'm taking all that into consideration. I usually include a set number of modifications to the initial model to avoid the back and forth
that happens when everyone starts giving independent opinion. After the first model I usually conduct a meeting with the whole
team to discuss the results and alternatives. Normally I won't modify the model until the whole team is moving in the same direction
with the changes that are being proposed. I have found that it saves me a whole lot of time, lol.

Marcus, I totally agree with you on your rant! That's why I asked this question on the first place. Normally, when I do an existing
building model for building optimization the owner is willing to listen to every advice and really analyze every aspect of the process,
not just initial cost. Because of this the process is "simplified". But, since this is an RFP for LEED points, well, I really do not know what
carries more weight, if it really is the energy conservation, or if it is just getting the points with as little investment as possible to
get the certificate.

So, since I know I'll be competing with the "modelers" Marcus mentions I don't want to set the price too high. At the same time, since
it will be my first LEED model I don't want to set it so low that I get burned. But with the responses you've given me I think I have a pretty
good idea of what to do.

Thanks again, and Marcus, I promise to explain everything to the owner, even if my explanations fall on deaf ears. :)

Omar A. Delgado Colón, P.E., MEnvM., LEED AP BD&C
Vice President
EnerMech
PMB 340
130 Winston Churchill Ave.
San Juan, PR 00926-6018
Cel. (787) 224-6537
odelgado at enermechpr.com
info at enermechpr.com<mailto:info at enermechpr.com>
www.enermechpr.com<http://www.enermechpr.com/>



[cid:image001.gif at 01CC114B.7ED528E0] Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail
This Email is covered by the Electronics Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sections 2510-2521 and is legally priviliged. The information in this email is personal and confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not an intended recipient, you must not read, use or disseminate the information contained in the email. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may be subject to Attorney/Client privilege and/or Work Product. You are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communications is strictly prohibited.

From: James V Dirkes II, PE [mailto:jim at buildingperformanceteam.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 1:57 PM
To: 'Omar Delgado'; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost

Dear Omar,

My opinion is that you've done the harder project already - an existing building!
For a LEED certification you often have more freedom in certain areas, such as occupancy and equipment schedules because all schedules do not need to be precise - they're just someone's best estimate.  In an existing building model, you must get fairly precise so that your model matches the utility bills.
For LEED, you have:

·         One geometry description (length, width, height, windows)

·         One set of schedules for occupancy and diversity

·         One set of information about "process" equipment

·         2 sets of materials (Walls, Roof, windows for Baseline per 90.1 and actual)

·         2 sets of HVAC equipment (Baseline and actual)

o   Carefully consider zoning before you begin and review the requirements for Baseline systems in 90.1.  You may have more than one system type, especially if some areas of the building have significantly different schedules or other criteria.

·         2 reports (generally "ABUPS" is needed for each model) which describe the key differences between the systems and their performance

o   Including performance in sub-categories such as "lights", "cooling", "heating" as described in the LEED documentation

·         1 comparison of the 2 systems which results in an overall operating cost comparison.

·         Some time with LEED online to load all of your reports

·         Possible time to discuss and explain results with the LEED reviewer

I normally exclude from my scope the documentation of all of the mandatory requirements in Sections 5-10 of 90.1.  These are normally much easier to document if you are the designer, since the information is readily at hand and, presumably, you have incorporated them purposefully during the design process.  I also state that we do NOT guarantee any LEED points whatsoever; that's the designer's option.  The modeler is only documenting estimated performance what has been designed, not guaranteeing its performance.  Finally, we also state that the performance is estimated, not necessarily even close to what will actually occur.  I show some typical language below.

As you can see, I'm not saying "40 hours".  Rather, compare what you know about the cost for an existing building to the items which are different in a LEED certification for a new building, make an estimate using that information.  I hope that is helpful!

1.    Energy models are not intended or expected to match closely with actual energy use.  They ARE expected to provide a reasonable basis from which to judge overall patterns and enable comparison of design options.
New buildings, especially, represent challenges which are not precisely quantifiable by an energy model.  These include:
·         Patterns of occupancy and lighting use are not established
·         Equipment, including office PCs and copiers, has not been installed and it is not known how much power will be used nor how often.
·         Weather patterns vary from year to year, while the energy model uses a "typical" weather pattern.
·         Equipment efficiencies, control sequences and controls calibration normally vary from planned, design information.



The Building Performance Team
James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP, BEMP
1631 Acacia Drive NW
Grand Rapids, MI 49504
616 450 8653

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Omar Delgado
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:08 PM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost

Greetings everyone,

I have a question regarding the cost of an energy model for a LEED project. Every energy model I've done so far has been for
existing buildings, mainly for optimization purposes. However, I received an RFP to model a five-story, 41,500 sq. ft. building
that's currently on the design phase and is pursuing the LEED-NC Silver certification. I really have no idea what would be a fair
price for this model since I'm going to have to use Appendix G (ASHRAE 90.1) to evaluate the difference between the base
and proposed buildings. I don't know how much extra effort this will take. I know the procedure, just haven't done it before.

Can you shed any light on this issue?

Thanks in advance!

Omar A. Delgado Colón, P.E., MEnvM., LEED AP BD&C
Vice President
EnerMech
PMB 340
130 Winston Churchill Ave.
San Juan, PR 00926-6018
Cel. (787) 224-6537
odelgado at enermechpr.com
info at enermechpr.com<mailto:info at enermechpr.com>
www.enermechpr.com<http://www.enermechpr.com/>



[cid:image001.gif at 01CC114B.7ED528E0] Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail
This Email is covered by the Electronics Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sections 2510-2521 and is legally priviliged. The information in this email is personal and confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not an intended recipient, you must not read, use or disseminate the information contained in the email. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may be subject to Attorney/Client privilege and/or Work Product. You are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communications is strictly prohibited.

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