[Bldg-sim] Definition of a University Dormitory - Residential or Non-Residential?

[Dónal O'Connor]

Hi all,

I will model the building based on System 1/2 and group the spaces based on thermal zones.

Thanks for all of your help and guidance.

Cheers

Dónal

From: jim at buildingperformanceteam.com
To: maria.karpman at karpmanconsulting.net; oconnor_dj at hotmail.com; rwattanasak at emoenergy.com; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 13:34:02 -0500
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Definition of a University Dormitory - Residential or Non-Residential?

I vote with Maria and Demba J.It is, however, very interesting to see all of the different perspectives! James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, LEED AP
www.buildingperformanceteam.com 
Energy Analysis, Commissioning & Training Services
1631 Acacia Drive, Grand Rapids, MI 49504 USA
616 450 8653 From: Maria Karpman [mailto:maria.karpman at karpmanconsulting.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:19 PM
To: 'Dónal O'Connor'; 'Rut Wattanasak'; Jim Dirkes; 'Building Sim Forum'
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Definition of a University Dormitory - Residential or Non-Residential? I second the approach described by Demba. Rut wrote “Since your dormitory building contains some non-residential space types, you shouldn't use the building type to determine your Baseline, ie it's no longer truly a residential building type“. I disagree that presence of spaces such as electrical/mechanical rooms, corridors, stairs, multi-purpose rooms, etc. automatically means that this is not a residential building type. It is hard to imagine a dormitory, hotel, motel, or multifamily without these, and System 7/8 is hardly an appropriate baseline for such spaces (there would have to be a system modeled for each floor).  You should also remember that only the area of conditioned spaces as defined in 90.1 Section 3 is counted when determining baseline system type (G3.1.1), so spaces like electrical/mechanical or storage may not have to be factored in. Thanks,MariaFrom: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Dónal O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:05 PM
To: Rut Wattanasak; Jim Dirkes; Building Sim Forum
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Definition of a University Dormitory - Residential or Non-Residential? Hi all,

Thank you for your responses thus far.

I did a quick calculation of the areas. Total Residential Floor area is approx. 75,000 sq. ft. and total Non-residential  is approx. 50,000 sq. ft. The Non-residential areas include the basement, main floor multi-purpose rooms, lobbies, storage etc, and the common corridors, elec, janitor, lounge/study areas on Floors 2-9.

So if we are in agreement that the Residential areas are to use either System 1 or System 2, the next question is what are the Non-residential areas classified as? From Table G3.1.1A it appears the number of floors take precedence over the floor area, so as the Non-residential area extends over 10 floors, it should be classified as System 7 or System 8. Am I correct in saying that the number of floors takes precedence over the floor area?

Thanks again for your help and guidance.

Cheers

Dónal

 From: rwattanasak at emoenergy.com
To: jim at buildingperformanceteam.com; oconnor_dj at hotmail.com; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Definition of a University Dormitory - Residential or Non-Residential?
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 17:33:21 +0000Per the exception noted by Mr Dirkes, I would model the Baseline building based on Table G3.1.1A; except with the dorm rooms, modeled them with System 1 or 2.  Here is how I come to this decision: Since your dormitory building contains some non-residential space types, you shouldn't use the building type to determine your Baseline, ie it's no longer truly a residential building typeDorm rooms still fall under the residential space type, so use residential Baseline systems (1 or 2) for those spaces"Other building and space types are considered nonresidential"  This statement allows the rest of the building to be modeled per standard baseline (area, # of floors, energy source). I see the same thought process applies to the mixed-use (commercial/apartments) as well.  With the rise of mixed-use commercial building, I'm sure we'll be seeing this type of scenario more often.  I welcome any comments or suggestions. Thanks, Rut WattanasakLEED AP BD+C   From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org on behalf of Jim Dirkes
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:53 PM
To: John Aulbach; Dónal O'Connor; Building Sim Forum
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Definition of a University Dormitory - Residential or Non-Residential?  However…..The notes in that table clarify as shown below.  I think the notes indicate that Donal’s “predominant” building type is residential.  It sounds as though there are some “non-predominant” types as well.  Take a look at G3.1.1’s Exceptions for a description of those. From 90.1-2007 Table G3.1.1A:Notes:Residential building types include dormitory, hotel, motel, and multifamily. Residential space types include guest rooms, living quarters, private living space, and sleeping quarters. Otherbuilding and space types are considered nonresidential  James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, LEED AP
www.buildingperformanceteam.com 
Energy Analysis, Commissioning & Training Services
1631 Acacia Drive, Grand Rapids, MI 49504 USA
616 450 8653 From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of John Aulbach
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:47 PM
To: Dónal O'Connor; Building Sim Forum
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Definition of a University Dormitory - Residential or Non-Residential? Sir: If the building is over 5 stories high believe that comes under Non-Residential. Period.  John Aulbach, PE From: Dónal O'Connor <oconnor_dj at hotmail.com>
To: Building Sim Forum <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 9:05 AM
Subject: [Bldg-sim] Definition of a University Dormitory - Residential or Non-Residential? Dear Bldg Sim,

I'm looking for guidance on the definition of a University Dormitory building that I'm modeling under LEED 2009, particularly referencing Table G3.1.1A Baseline HVAC System Types. The building has 9 storeys above grade with an underground basement, with a total floor area of approx. 125,000 sq. ft.

The Basement is primarily crawlspace, electrical, mechanical, student storage etc.

The Main Floor consists of a number of multi-purpose rooms, further storage facilities for bicycles, recycling etc, with 1/3 of the main floor plan dedicated to student residences.

The remaining floors, 2 - 9, are student residences with a number of break out/study rooms/lounge areas on each floor.

Is the building classified as "Residential", or is it considered "Nonresidential and More than 5 floors or > 150,000 sq. ft" due to the basement and main floor spaces not being "Residential"? Will I have to model the basement and the main floor separate from floors 2-9?

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Dónal
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