[Bldg-sim] published modeling costs

[Nick Caton]

There have been a few discussion in the past across the [bldg.-sim] and [equest-users] lists covering costs and fee structures for energy modeling services.  Attached are a few selected threads that should be worthwhile reads from the bottom-up.  The "Response & Statement..." thread in particular diverged into many different directions (It was a broad topic of conversation to start, to be fair) - a search of the archives will lead you to a number of other responses if you should find the content matter interesting.

As someone who writes proposals, I REALLY wish there were an easy answer, but alas every project / client is unique!  Coming to a reasonable estimate typically requires digging hard at what information is (or will become) readily available, clear definition & statement of expectations, and an honest introspective assessment of how efficiently the modeling staff can accomplish the known challenges, and much the modelers' time is worth.  These are all tricky propositions in and of themselves.

When limited/no resources are available - you have to consider costs of field-verification and creating what you need for the intended goals.  Pricing the costs of developing "what you know you don't know" is always going to involve some educated guesswork.  Anecdotally, I can recall an SD phase exercise exploring building massing for a large renovation, and we had only fragmented info to work from in the way of plans.  After a trip to the site and a walk of the perimeter & courtyards snapping lots of shots from different perspectives, I constructed a massing model in Sketchup from the photos themselves (this is actually kinda fun - here's a video showing the principles of the procedure<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSuDoX8SPtU>).  This "SD" model was used directly at that stage alonside the free IES-VE Sketchup plugins, and was later used as a basis for developing design plans and a more involved series of eQuest model studies.  Main point being: this procedure is something I had to develop 'on the fly,' and encountering the same challenge in the future I'll have a good idea of what this entails, but often we can only work from the pool of experience we have and throw together a number that seems reasonable on paper.  If you're disciplined about reviewing the estimates and assumptions you make at the close of a project, you'll grow in your ability to assess and accurately quote future work.

Regards,

~Nick

[cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB]

NICK CATON, P.E.
SENIOR ENGINEER

Smith & Boucher Engineers
25501 west valley parkway, suite 200
olathe, ks 66061
direct 913.344.0036
fax 913.345.0617
www.smithboucher.com

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of RobertWichert
Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2013 2:50 PM
To: Philip Haves; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] published modeling costs

It occurs to me that there are several programs right here in California where you are located, Philip, that struggle with this routinely.  On the residential side, programs such as the CalRatePro supported utility programs need to model existing buildings where drawings may be difficult or impossible to obtain.  On the non-residential side, utility rebate programs here in California are likely to require a model to predict savings.  Multi-Family upgrade programs like the California Tax Credit Allocation Committee (google TCAC) incentive programs deal with this as well.  Although you may be familiar with these programs, and these programs may actually be at the root of your question, discussing this with local consultants and providers, in confidence, might be a good way to get information.  Resources might include frequent utility rebate partners, CALCERTS, EnergySoft, and consultants such as myself.

I would be willing to discuss this with you if you wish.






--

Robert P Wichert P.Eng. Inc.

LEED AP, HERS II, CEA

+1 916 966 9060

FAX +1 916 966 9068

==========================================

On 8/4/2013 10:16 AM, Philip Haves wrote:
I'm interested in any information on the costs of modeling existing buildings, particularly the costs associated with obtaining the necessary input data when the existing drawings etc are poor or non-existent.

Thanks,

Phil


--

Philip Haves

Leader, Simulation Research Group

Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory

One Cyclotron Road, MS 90R3111

Berkeley, CA 94720-8134

(510) 486 6512 (office)

(510) 486 4089 (fax)


On 8/4/2013 9:17 AM, Ellen Franconi wrote:
Can anyone direct me to published values of typical modeling costs?

Thanks,
Ellen
--
Ellen Franconi, PhD, LEED AP, BEMP
Senior Consultant, Built Environment Team

Rocky Mountain Institute
1820 Folsom Street
Boulder, CO 80302
303.567.8609 (Desk)
303.245.7213 (Fax)

Rocky Mountain Institute drives the efficient and restorative use of
resources, creating a world thriving, verdant, and secure, for all, for ever.

http://www.rmi.org




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--

Robert P Wichert P.Eng. Inc.

LEED AP, HERS II, CEA

+1 916 966 9060

FAX +1 916 966 9068
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