[Bldg-sim] Binned weather data for US (not the equest weather file)

Joe Huang yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
Fri Jan 11 11:29:08 PST 2013


I would like to clarify that ASHRAE TC 4.2 has not adjusted the design 
day information in the HOF.  What Dru meant I think is that global 
climate change and urban heat island effects are being seen the design 
day information as the tables are being periodically updated every 3-4 
years.  There has been no change in the design day calculation procedure 
that's related to capturing more recent results or projecting trends 
into the future.  The closest that TC 4.2 have come is to list the trend 
for each station over recent years.


Joe

Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
Moraga CA 94556
yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
www.whiteboxtechnologies.com
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"

On 1/11/2013 9:04 AM, Jim Dirkes wrote:
>
> Since ASHRAE is already adjusting design day information (see Dru 
> Crawley's post earlier today), I think the best use for AMY data in 
> our industry will be an energy model of an existing building for which 
> you want to match actual vs predicted energy use.  Using the actual 
> weather eliminates a significant unknown and allows you to focus on 
> the other uncertainties as you calibrate the model.
>
> *James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, LEED AP**
> **www.buildingperformanceteam.com* 
> <http://www.buildingperformanceteam.com/>*
> **Energy Analysis, Commissioning & Training Services**
> *1631 Acacia Drive, Grand Rapids, MI 49504USA
> 616 450 8653
>
> *From:*bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Arpan 
> Bakshi
> *Sent:* Friday, January 11, 2013 11:20 AM
> *To:* Chuck Khuen
> *Cc:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] Binned weather data for US (not the equest 
> weather file)
>
> We have some good discussion at the NY IBPSA meeting last night about 
> TMY vs. AMY weather data, and looking at both on projects even though 
> AMY data is not common in U.S. standards / rating systems.
>
> Any thoughts here? Do others run concurrent simulations using AMY data?
>
> _________________________________________
>
> *Arpan Bakshi *Sustainability Manager
> LEED AP BD+C, ESTIDAMA PQP
>
> *YR&G*
>
> sustainability consulting, education and analysis
>
> 161 Bowery - 4th Floor - NY NY 10002
>
> D 646.704.2880
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>
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Chuck Khuen 
> <chuck.khuen at wxaglobal.com <mailto:chuck.khuen at wxaglobal.com>> wrote:
>
> I agree with Joe's assessment here on the length of time for a TMY 
> file. Since we construct TMY files on demand, we are actually thinking 
> about making the number of years a user selectable variable..."Build 
> from the last ___ years of data".  Would that be useful?
>
> Chuck
>
> _________________
> Chuck Khuen
> Co-Founder, EVP
> Weather Analytics
> weatheranalytics.com <http://weatheranalytics.com>
> 781-856-5383 <tel:781-856-5383>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Joe Huang
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 4:48 PM
> To: Alec Stevens
> Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org <mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Binned weather data for US (not the equest 
> weather file)
>
> Here are my two-cents:
>
> I think the idea of calculating design conditions or developing 
> "typical year" weather data
> using a long historical record, e.g., the past 30 years, needs to be 
> re-evaluated in light of
> global or regional climate change, as well as such irreversible trends 
> as Urban Heat Islands,
>
> Using longer time periods doesn't bring more accuracy in predicting 
> future climate conditions
> (after all, aren't we interested in only how buildings do in the 
> future, and not the past?),
> but only anchors us more in the past.
>
> About 15 years ago, a meteorologist in ASHRAE TC 4.2 found that you 
> need only 7 years
> of data to overcome the stochastic year-to-year variations in the 
> climate. Therefore, I feel
> that it's best to use a shorter time period, more like the last dozen, 
> for these purposes.
>
> That's what I've done for the California Energy Commission in creating 
> the new CZ2010 Title-24
> weather files, and what I will be doing to calculate design conditions 
> for the same locations.
>
> There's also been discussion in various places on using GCM (Global 
> Circulation Models) to
> calculate future weather and then develop design conditions or "future 
> year" weather files.
> I find these  methods too hypothetical for my tastes, and I'm sure 
> those skeptics out there
> would have a field day if we were to use them, so my position is to 
> keep doing things the
> old way with the actual historical data, but shorten the time periods 
> to something more
> immediate.
>
> Last year, I did a study of the savings for window awnings,  where the 
> client asked me to also
> do the simulations using the hottest year over the past decade.  The 
> results were quite
> noticeable.
> The hottest year (judged by cooling degree-days) for 40% of the 50 US 
> locations I studied were
> in the last two years (2010 or 2011).  The cooling loads in many 
> locations increased by 30-40%
> (more in the north, less in the south).
>
> Joe
>
> Joe Huang
> White Box Technologies, Inc.
> 346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
> Moraga CA 94556
> yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com <mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>
> www.whiteboxtechnologies.com <http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com>
> (o) (925)388-0265 <tel:%28925%29388-0265>
> (c) (510)928-2683 <tel:%28510%29928-2683>
> "building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>
>
> On 1/10/2013 1:03 PM, Alec Stevens wrote:
>
> Here's some food for thought (and sorry to hijack this thread):
>
> I was at an AEE meeting yesterday that included a discussion by a local
> meteorologist about the increased variability and extremes that are being
> predicted in weather models for the future (i.e. climate change).
>
> What is the feeling in the bldg-sim community as to how useful 1973-1996
> binned average data will continue to be when it comes to predicting 
> building
> operation, loads, and performance in a future that is expected to be more
> variable and extreme with regards to weather?
>
> Is anyone preparing a new set of TMY data with more extremes?  Are design
> day criteria being updated from the historical ASHRAE 1% values?  Will 95
> drybulb/78 wetbulb (for Boston anyway) no longer be the standard?
>
> Just wondering if our current methods of building simulation (and design)
> may leave something to be desired.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Alec Stevens
>
> DMI
> 300 Chestnut Street, Suite 150
> Needham, MA 02492
> p: 781 449 5700 x11 <tel:781%20449%205700%20x11>   f:781 449 5710 
> <tel:781%20449%205710>
> e: astevens at dmiinc.com <mailto:astevens at dmiinc.com>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
> <mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
> <mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>] On Behalf Of Jason Glazer
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 3:50 PM
> To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org <mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Binned weather data for US (not the equest weather
> file)
>
> The updated Engineering Weather Data to cover 1973-1996 and put it on a CD
>
> http://ols.nndc.noaa.gov/plolstore/plsql/olstore.prodspecific?prodnum=5005
>
> It is only $17 now.
>
> Jason
>
>
> On 1/10/2013 2:42 PM, Joe Huang wrote:
>
> What do you mean by binned weather data?  Like what was in the Air
> Force Engineering Weather Data manual from 1978?
> You might check ASHRAE's Weather Data Viewer that can produce binned
> temperature data for over 5,000 locations around the world.  It's not
> free, though, costs $119.
>
> Joe
>
> Joe Huang
> White Box Technologies, Inc.
> 346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
> Moraga CA 94556
> yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com <mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>
> www.whiteboxtechnologies.com <http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com>
> (o) (925)388-0265 <tel:%28925%29388-0265>
> (c) (510)928-2683 <tel:%28510%29928-2683>
> "building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>
>
> On 1/10/2013 11:48 AM, R B wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> Is there a way to get binned weather data for different locations -
> preferably free. A quick google search did not come up with anything
> concrete.
> Thanks
> -Rohini
>
>
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> --
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> onebuilding.org <http://onebuilding.org>
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