[Bldg-sim] Energy needs at an early design stage

[RobertWichert]

Roger the huge challenge.  Bear in mind that the project won't want to 
pay any more no matter how many things they change and the profession 
quickly becomes a losing proposition.


Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C
+1 916 966 9060
FAX +1 916 966 9068







===============================================

On 10/25/2013 7:38 AM, Dru.Crawley at bentley.com wrote:
>
> I agree too.   Models that can change as the design evolve are a huge 
> challenge.
>
> In presentations I give on challenges of doing energy simulation, I 
> describe a corporate HQ project that I worked on (a LONG time ago).  
> We started in predesign, looking shape -- a very long linear building 
> that we rotated and did a number of simulations on shape.  By 
> schematic design the building had changed to L-shaped... more 
> simulations...  When we got to conceptual design that become an H.  In 
> design development, the owner decided to incorporate a 50 kW data 
> center. By the end of construction documents, the building was 
> X-shaped with a central atrium...  Keeping up with these changes 
> throughout design is a real challenge.  About all that stays the same 
> are your space types, the location, and maybe some other settings.
>
> *From:*Duggin, Cory [mailto:Cory.Duggin at tlc-eng.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2013 11:14 AM
> *To:* Dennis Knight; Dru Crawley
> *Cc:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Bldg-sim] Energy needs at an early design stage
>
> I agree with Dennis.  Typically the design evolves so much between the 
> need for conceptual modeling and the more discrete system sizing 
> modeling, I end up building a new model.  With that in mind, I still 
> think the eQuest wizards are the easiest and quickest way to run 
> conceptual model options.  Then I move to IES VE for my more detailed 
> modeling.
>
> *Cory Duggin, EI*
>
> /Energy Engineer I/
>
> direct: 615-346-1939
>
>
> 	
>
> *From:*bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
> <mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> 
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Dennis 
> Knight
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:02 AM
> *To:* EnergySimulator .
> *Cc:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org 
> <mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy needs at an early design stage
>
> All,
>
> This has been a great thread.  My experience has been that the early 
> stage models for building orientation and envelope optimization are 
> not of much use, other than the insight gained from the exercise, when 
> you move from that phase of the project to system sizing and equipment 
> selection during the design phase, whether your are working with a 
> manual input workflow into a simulation tool or trying to automate the 
> input through Sketchup, Revit, Bentley, ArchiCAD, etc.  Load 
> calculations, equipment sizing, air distribution system device and 
> distribution system design and selection pretty much demand 
> room-by-room analysis.  Its hard to take conceptual models, exterior 
> surface area models, massing and "shoe-box" models and grow them into 
> room-by-room models using the same original input files.  I'm very 
> interested in what you all have to say about this process and does any 
> of these tools make the transition from concept to full blown design 
> any less painfull?
>
> Dennis
>
> On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:16 AM, <Dru.Crawley at bentley.com 
> <mailto:Dru.Crawley at bentley.com>> wrote:
>
> In addition to being able to do EnergyPlus simulation during 
> conceptual design using AECOsim Energy Simulator , users can also do 
> ASHRAE heating and cooling load calculations and look at ASHRAE 
> Standards 90.1 and 62.1 prescriptive and whole-building energy 
> compliance (90.1 ECB and PRM (App G).
>
> To see the conceptual modeling capabilities, it starts about 6:30 mins 
> into this video: http://youtu.be/ZFuKIISoVhk
>
> *From:*Dru Crawley
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 23, 2013 6:53 AM
> *To:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org 
> <mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
> *Subject:* RE: Energy needs at an early design stage
>
> Bentley Systems' AECOsim Energy Simulator has a conceptual mode -- 
> about 10 inputs (mostly from drop-down boxes), draw the outline of the 
> footprint, select from a dozen preconfigured HVAC system 
> (drag-and-drop components, all 90.1 required baseline and budget 
> systems), and simulate.  And it uses EnergyPlus.  Once your conceptual 
> model is ready, you can modify all the default parameters.
>
> Free, 30-day trial available from: 
> http://www.bentley.com/en-US/Products/AECOsim+Energy+Simulator/
>
> *From:*bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
> <mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> 
> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of 
> *Wagemakers, Jens (2034464)
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 23, 2013 6:23 AM
> *To:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org 
> <mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
> *Subject:* [Bldg-sim] [Spam:*****] Energy needs at an early design stage
>
> Dear all,
>
> Does anyone of you know a software program which I can use to 
> calculate the energy needs of a building (installed power) at an early 
> stage (design). With the usual programs like EnergyPlus or Trnsys you 
> need to insert a lot of parameters to get the information, parameters 
> which  just aren't allways available in the design stage.
> The calculations don't have to be very precise, I'm looking for a tool 
> which can give an acceptable result, so we can give our customer an 
> idea of how much power is needed for a certain building.
>
> Greatfully,
>
> Jens Wagemakers (The Netherlands)
>
>
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>
>
> -- 
> M. Dennis Knight, P.E., FASHRAE
>
> Founder & CEO
>
> *W*hole *B*uilding *S*ystems, LLC
>
> P.O. Box 1845
>
> Mt. Pleasant, SC 29465
>
> Phone: 843-437-3647
>
> Email: dknight at wholebuildingsystems.com 
> <mailto:dknight at wholebuildingsystems.com>
>
> Website: www.wholebuildingsystems.com 
> <http://www.wholebuildingsystems.com>
>
>
>
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