[Bldg-sim] [Trace-users] Specify Window Frame Type

Dahlstrom, Aaron ADahlstrom at in-posse.com
Wed Apr 2 15:15:10 PDT 2014

I am curious if others have used Kawneer's interpolation tables for assembly u-value on LEED submissions and had a good result.

I have in the past been somewhat puzzled what to put in the below entry field of Table 1.4 if I am relying on Kawneer's tables.

I imagine you could put "other" and say "manufacturer tables calculated per NFRC 100."

Is this acceptable / have others have had any issues?
Cross posting to bldg-sim as this has broader applicability than just Trace.

[cid:image002.jpg at 01CF4E9F.7BB7E690]

Aaron Dahlstrom, PE, LEED(r) AP
In Posse - A subsidiary of AKF| 1500 Walnut Street, Suite 1414, Philadelphia, PA 19102
d: 215-282-6753| m: 267-507-5470| In Posse: 215-282-6800| AKF: 212-354-5656
e: ADahlstrom at in-posse.com | in posse web: www.in-posse.com<http://www.in-posse.com/> | akf web: www.AKFGroup.com

From: trace-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:trace-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Doug Brenner
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 5:39 PM
To: Ben Hollon
Cc: trace-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Trace-users] Specify Window Frame Type

In one case, I was able to get the NFRC calculation from the window manufacturer.  This was on a design/build job where the windows had already been approved and purchased.  I would add that it wasn't easy, the manufacturer would not help me until I got our GC involved.

On another job that I'm currently working on, the architect provided a cut sheet for both the glass and the aluminum curtain wall system they are specifying.  The curtain wall manufacturer's cut sheet had tables that listed the assembly u-values and SHGC's for different center of glass values (see attachment).  I have not submtted this job yet but I hope the LEED reviewers will accept this approach.  The manufacturer states the calculations are NFRC compliant.

From: trace-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:trace-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> [mailto:trace-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Richard Ellison
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 5:22 PM
To: Ben Hollon
Cc: trace-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:trace-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Trace-users] Specify Window Frame Type

Build the window assembles in windows from LBNL and then put those assemblies into your Trace libraries.  Put them into your model and explain to the reviewer how you did it.

On Apr 2, 2014, at 5:17 PM, "Ben Hollon" <bhollon at antella-inc.com<mailto:bhollon at antella-inc.com>> wrote:

Working on a LEED energy model in Trace. I typically use HAP, which allows the input of a window frame type, and it then calculates the entire window assembly U-value and SC, rather than just the glass.

I've had LEED reviewers come back and ask me for my window assembly calcs and I was able to show how HAP was doing that calc based on the frame type as well. However, I can't find anything similar in Trace, and I'm getting nervous about how to show assembly calculations to a LEED reviewer. I've had terrible luck in the past getting assembly values from the manufacturer as well.

I spoke with CDS and they recommended modeling a small sliver of wall that is representative of the frame, which seems quite tedious.

Has anyone either experienced this issue, and figured out a work around?


Ben Hollon,

Antella Consulting Engineers, inc.

1600 Genessee, Suite 260 * Kansas City, MO 64102 * Tele: (816) 421-0950 * Fax: (816) 249-2439 * www.antella-inc.com<http://www.antella-inc.com>

DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this electronic communication, as well as in any attachments, is privileged and confidential and intended solely for use by the addressee(s). Any other use, dissemination, or copying of this electronic communication is strictly prohibited and is an interference with Antella Consulting Engineers, inc. confidential business relationships. If you received this communication in error, please notify me immediately and permanently delete the original and any electronic or printed copies of this electronic communication.


Trace-users mailing list
To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to TRACE-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG<mailto:TRACE-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG>
This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail. E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with In Posse.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20140402/e5cca581/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 57630 bytes
Desc: image002.jpg
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20140402/e5cca581/attachment.jpg>

More information about the Bldg-sim mailing list