No subject
Thu May 8 09:17:00 PDT 2014
particularly when you have to rate the HX for high pressures. There are two
kinds of plate HXs, gasketed and soldered. Getting a soldered type sort of
defeats one of the main advantages of a plate-frame type HX, its
expandability. The gasketed type for high-pressure applications are less in
supply and as a result cost a lot. The highest-pressure rating I've seen
for a gasketed-type plate-frame HX is 300 psia.
My following comments apply to a gasketed-type plate-frame heat exchanger.
(1) How high do you want to go? This is really an indirect question related
to the fill pressure of the system, the location of the expansion tank, and
the location of the HX in the system. Note that when you fill the system,
you need an addition 2 to 5 psig of pressure to allow the water to spit out
of the top of the system, ensuring the entire system is filled and most (if
not all) of the air is out. (2) By putting the HX at the pump discharge
means you will feel the full impact of the dynamic head of the pump and
static head of the system at that location. Not the best place in large
systems like campuses or district energy plants. (3) When including the
comments provided in (2) previously, one can then note that you can
eliminate the dynamic head from the equation. (4) HX exposed to all of the
static head plus the dynamic head depending upon the placement of the pump
in relation to the HX. (5) Your static head is minimum, and dynamic head is
again only that contribution depending on the pump's placement in relation
to the HX. Note this is probably your cheapest plate-frame HX since the
pressure is probably the lowest (assuming the expansion tank is also located
at the suction inlet of the pump). (6) I don't know exactly what you mean
here.
As for what are the issues when the HX is replaced with other equipment such
as chillers and boilers: this will depend upon the system you are dealing
with. Are there existing chillers and boilers being displaced by this
replacement? Why? Is it of economic benefit to the owner? Higher
efficient device? Perhaps you are referring to the approach temperature.
Note the closer the approach temperature, the more expensive the heat
exchanger. However, the closer the approach temperature, the more efficient
the system. For example, if you have a chilled-water system circulating
water at a 14 delta T, and you have a heat exchanger with a 2 degree
approach, then the load side of the heat exchanger operates at a 10 degree
delta T. If you have the same chiller system circulating water at 14
degrees delta T and you have a 1-degree approach, then your load side of the
heat exchanger can operate at a 12-degree delta T. As you can intuitively
see, the one-degree approach HX provides for a more efficient system.
Sincerely,
Eric Kirchhoff, PE
-----Original Message-----
From: Varkie Thomas [mailto:Varkie.Thomas at som.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 3:05 PM
To: bldg-sim at gard.com
Subject: [bldg-sim] Pump location
I am looking for information (articles, research papers, case studies) on
the effect of the location of the pump relative to a plate and frame heat
exchanger in a closed piping system. Some of the issues are (1) the
vertical height of the piping system (1000' to 2000'), how high can you go,
(2) pumping thru HX, (3) pumping away from HX, (4) pump and HX located at
bottom of system, (5) pump and HX at top of system, and (6) pump start up.
What are the issues when the HX is replaced with other equipment such as
chillers and boilers?
Varkie Thomas
Skidmore, Owings & Merrill
312-360-4467
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<body bgcolor=3Dwhite lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue =
style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>F=
rom design
experience, plate-frame heat exchangers can be quite expensive, =
particularly
when you have to rate the HX for high pressures.<span =
style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes"> </span>There are two kinds of plate HXs, gasketed and
soldered.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Getting a =
soldered type
sort of defeats one of the main advantages of a plate-frame type HX, =
its
expandability.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>The =
gasketed type for
high-pressure applications are less in supply and as a result cost a =
lot.<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>The highest-pressure rating =
I’ve seen
for a gasketed-type plate-frame HX is 300 =
psia.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>M=
y
following comments apply to a gasketed-type plate-frame heat =
exchanger.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>(=
1) How
high do you want to go?<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</span>This is
really an indirect question related to the fill pressure of the system, =
the
location of the expansion tank, and the location of the HX in the =
system.<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Note that when you fill the =
system, you
need an addition 2 to 5 psig of pressure to allow the water to spit out =
of the
top of the system, ensuring the entire system is filled and most (if =
not all)
of the air is out.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>(2) =
By putting
the HX at the pump discharge means you will feel the full impact of the =
dynamic
head of the pump and static head of the system at that location.<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Not the best place in large =
systems
like campuses or district energy plants. (3) When including the =
comments
provided in (2) previously, one can then note that you can eliminate =
the
dynamic head from the equation. <span style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> </span>(4)
HX exposed to all of the static head plus the dynamic head depending =
upon the
placement of the pump in relation to the HX.<span =
style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes"> </span>(5) Your static head is minimum, and dynamic head is =
again
only that contribution depending on the pump’s placement in =
relation to the HX.<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Note this is probably your =
cheapest plate-frame
HX since the pressure is probably the lowest (assuming the expansion =
tank is
also located at the suction inlet of the pump).<span =
style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes"> </span>(6) I don’t know exactly what you mean =
here.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>A=
s for
what are the issues when the HX is replaced with other equipment such =
as
chillers and boilers:<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</span>this will
depend upon the system you are dealing with.<span =
style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes"> </span>Are there existing chillers and boilers being =
displaced by
this replacement?<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</span>Why?<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Is it of economic benefit to =
the
owner?<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Higher efficient =
device?<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Perhaps you are referring to =
the
approach temperature.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</span>Note the
closer the approach temperature, the more expensive the heat =
exchanger.<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>However, the closer the =
approach
temperature, the more efficient the system.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes"> </span>For example, if you have a chilled-water system =
circulating
water at a 14 delta T, and you have a heat exchanger with a 2 degree =
approach,
then the load side of the heat exchanger operates at a 10 degree delta =
T.<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>If you have the same chiller =
system
circulating water at 14 degrees delta T and you have a 1-degree =
approach, then
your load side of the heat exchanger can operate at a 12-degree delta =
T.<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>As you can intuitively see, =
the one-degree
approach HX provides for a more efficient =
system.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font></span><span
class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-color-=
alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>S=
incerely,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle20><font=20
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail=20
Signature" <span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span></span></font></span><![end=
if]--><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'>Eric Kirchhoff, =
PE</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle20><font=20
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-end'></span></span></font></span><![endif]-->=
<span
class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Varkie Thomas
[mailto:Varkie.Thomas at som.com]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, =
December 17, 2003
3:05 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
bldg-sim at gard.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [bldg-sim] Pump =
location</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am looking =
for
information (articles, research papers, case studies) on the effect of =
the
location of the pump relative to a plate and frame heat exchanger in a =
closed
piping system. Some of the issues are (1) the vertical height of =
the
piping system (1000’ to 2000’), how high can you go, (2) =
pumping thru HX, (3)
pumping away from HX, (4) pump and HX located at bottom of system, (5) =
pump and
HX at top of system, and (6) pump start up. What are the issues =
when the
HX is replaced with other equipment such as chillers and =
boilers?</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></f=
ont><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Varkie =
Thomas</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Skidmore, =
Owings &
Merrill</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>312-360-4467</sp=
an></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>
<pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</pre><pre
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</pre><pre
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DYou received this =
e-mail because you are subscribed </span></font><font
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</pre><pre
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an></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</pre></div>
<PRE>
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