[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Domestic Hot Water

To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Domestic Hot Water
From: katerina fragaki <katerinafra@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 15:38:03 +0000 (GMT)
Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
Delivered-to: mailing list EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=R6423WrCghIX35P8M+eEEMgU/HYT3LHe/mS5SCGb0NFA/imjh1R73opEGMXkv+ZnrD1kzoGFMSlBi30p4kyvHB9LwTQ24CVrYLdnE7q8i1qtTPm8QZbzQF5ZZd97gKNy;
In-reply-to: <472B5094.145.57C1A4C@mjwitte.gard.com>
List-id: <EnergyPlus_Support.yahoogroups.com>
List-unsubscribe: <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Mailing-list: list EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; contact EnergyPlus_Support-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Reply-to: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sender: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you very much Mike.
  I will try the direct heater at the moment and the indirect when it becomes available since my idf was for an indirect one.
   
  Regards,
  Katerina

"Michael J. Witte" <mjwitte@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
          Regarding the indirect water heater, you could wait a week and use version 2.1.

Or, if I understand correctly, there is not much difference in energy 
consumption for an indirect water heater compared to a direct-fired water 
heater with a burner efficiency set to match the boiler efficiency. There will 
be some difference in pumping power and some difference in equipment part-load, 
but the same amount of water will be ultimately be heated, and the zone heating 
loads will be met. So, I would just model the two systems separately and set 
the water heater burner efficiency to match the boiler efficiency.

Regarding the node connection errors, if you have not had any other fatal 
errors, then they are real. To track them down, search the idf file (in a text 
editor) for the specific node and branch names that are mentioned in the 
errors. Every node that is used as an inlet to a piece of equipment assumes 
there will be a matching node name that is used as an outlet (or in the case of 
water branches, these may terminate in a splitter or mixer). If you are not 
able to spot the problems, please post your file in the files area or mail as a 
zipped attachment to energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx

Mike

On 2 Nov 2007 at 13:49, katerina fragaki wrote:

> Dear Mike,
> Thanks for your reply.
> Which do you think then will be the best approximation
> to simulate the system that I want in the EnergyPlus
> (see the description in my e-mail below on the 30th of
> October).
> (Also: the run did not fail, there was no fatal error,
> only the severe errors I included in the e-mail).
> 
> With regards,
> Katerina 
> 
> 
> --- "Michael J. Witte" <mjwitte@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> > The simple answer is that EnergyPlus 2.0 cannot
> > model indirect water heaters. 
> > That is a capability we hope to have working for
> > version 2.1.
> > 
> > I cannot see your inputs (the yahoo list does not
> > allow attachments, files may 
> > be uploaded to the group on the web), but node
> > connection errors such as these 
> > indicate that there are dangling nodes (inlet node
> > did not find a matching 
> > outlet node) which can happen for many reasons,
> > including simple typos. If the 
> > run failed with a fatal error, the node connection
> > errors may be false, because 
> > the simulation may not have read all of the input
> > before it terminated.
> > 
> > Mike
> > 
> > 
> > On 30 Oct 2007 at 15:11, katerina fragaki wrote:
> > 
> > > Hello all,
> > > 
> > > I try to simulate a domestic hot water system
> > where the 'source' side of the
> > > water heater is connected to a boiler supply,
> > which provides with hot water
> > > the pipe in the water heater (in my system the
> > boiler also provides hot water
> > > for a hot water radiator). 
> > > 
> > > For the simulation of the water heater and the
> > 'use' (domestic hot water) side
> > > of it, I used the example file of the EnergyPlus
> > 'WaterHeaterDHWPlantLoop'. In
> > > this example however the heat source in the
> > water heater is electricity. I set
> > > these fields to natural gas. Also, I connected
> > the source side to the boiler
> > > supply side using a pump, splitter and mixer as
> > shown in the file attached. 
> > > 
> > > Could you please tell me what corrections should
> > I make in my simulation? In
> > > the error message file I am getting the
> > following connection errors:
> > > 
> > > ** Severe ** Node Connection Error,
> > Node="WATER HEATER SOURCE INLET NODE",
> > > Inlet node did not find an appropriate matching
> > "outlet" node. ** ~~~ **
> > > If this is an outside air inlet node, it must
> > be listed in an OUTSIDE AIR
> > > NODE or OUTSIDE AIR INLET NODE LIST object. ** 
> > ~~~ ** Reference
> > > Object=BRANCH, Name=WATER HEATER SOURCE BRANCH
> > ** Severe ** Node Connection
> > > Error, Node="WATER HEATER SOURCE EXIT PIPE
> > INLET NODE", Inlet node did not
> > > find an appropriate matching "outlet" node. ** 
> > ~~~ ** If this is an
> > > outside air inlet node, it must be listed in an
> > OUTSIDE AIR NODE or OUTSIDE
> > > AIR INLET NODE LIST object. ** ~~~ **
> > Reference Object=BRANCH, Name=WATER
> > > HEATER SOURCE OUTLET BRANCH ** Severe ** Node
> > Connection Error, Node="WATER
> > > HEATER SOURCE EXIT PIPE INLET NODE", Inlet node
> > did not find an appropriate
> > > matching "outlet" node. ** ~~~ ** If this
> > is an outside air inlet node,
> > > it must be listed in an OUTSIDE AIR NODE or
> > OUTSIDE AIR INLET NODE LIST
> > > object. ** ~~~ ** Reference Object=PIPE,
> > Name=WATER HEATER SOURCE EXIT
> > > PIPE ** Severe ** Node Connection Error,
> > Node="WATER HEATER SOURCE ENTRANCE
> > > PIPE INLET NODE", Inlet node did not find an
> > appropriate matching "outlet"
> > > node. ** ~~~ ** If this is an outside air
> > inlet node, it must be listed
> > > in an OUTSIDE AIR NODE or OUTSIDE AIR INLET
> > NODE LIST object. ** ~~~ **
> > > Reference Object=PIPE, Name=WATER HEATER SOURCE
> > ENTRANCE PIPE ** Warning **
> > > Potential Node Connection Error for object
> > WATER HEATER:STRATIFIED,
> > > name=WATER HEATER ** ~~~ ** Node Types
> > are still UNDEFINED -- See
> > > Branch/Node Details file for further
> > information ** ~~~ ** Inlet Node :
> > > WATER HEATER SOURCE INLET NODE ** ~~~ ** 
> > Outlet Node: WATER HEATER
> > > SOURCE OUTLET NODE ** Warning ** Node
> > Connection Error for object PIPE,
> > > name=WATER HEATER SOURCE ENTRANCE PIPE ** ~~~
> > ** Pipe Nodes not on any
> > > Branch or Parent Object ** ~~~ ** Inlet
> > Node : WATER HEATER SOURCE
> > > ENTRANCE PIPE INLET NODE ** ~~~ ** Outlet
> > Node: WATER HEATER SOURCE
> > > LOOP INLET NODE ************* There were 6 node
> > connection errors noted.
> > > 
> > > With regards,
> > > Katerina 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone
> > who knows. Tryit now.
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> > > http://www.energyplus.gov
> > > 
> > > The group web site is:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> > > 
> > > Attachments are not allowed -- please post any
> > files to the appropriate folder
> > > in the Files area of the Support Web Site.
> > > 
> > > EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open
> > EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the
> > > Documentation link and press the "search" button.
> > > 
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> ========================================================
> > Michael J. Witte, GARD Analytics, Inc.
> > EnergyPlus Testing and Support 
> > EnergyPlus-Support@xxxxxxxx
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now.
> http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ 
> 
> 
> The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
> http://www.energyplus.gov
> 
> The group web site is:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
> 
> Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the appropriate folder
> in the Files area of the Support Web Site.
> 
> EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the
> Documentation link and press the "search" button.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

========================================================
Michael J. Witte, GARD Analytics, Inc.
EnergyPlus Testing and Support 
EnergyPlus-Support@xxxxxxxx



                         

       
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
http://www.energyplus.gov

The group web site is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/

Attachments are not allowed -- please post any files to the appropriate folder in the Files area of the Support Web Site.

EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable.  Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:EnergyPlus_Support-digest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    mailto:EnergyPlus_Support-fullfeatured@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    EnergyPlus_Support-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

References:
- Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Domestic Hot Water
  - From: Michael J. Witte

Prev by Date: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] A question about the solar radiation calculation in the DesingDay object
Next by Date: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re:ECOTECT VS DESIGNBUILDER
Previous by thread: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Domestic Hot Water
Next by thread: [EnergyPlus_Support] Input file - form of the building
Index(es):
- Date
- Thread