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Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: need help w/ monthly gas usage results
You can only use a gas or electric heating coil in the
Furnace/UnitarySystem objects. A gas, electric, or desupheating coil can
be used as the reheat coil in Furnace/UnitarySystems when humidity
control is required. For a cooling/heating system use the
DXSystem:AirLoop with a hot water or steam heating coil downstream. See
example file SteamSystemAutoSize.idf. For a heating only system, I think
you can use only a hot water or steam coil in the air loop.
D T wrote:
>
> Thanks for the suggestions. I created a Coil:Steam:AirHeating object
> and connected it to the Furnace:HeatOnly object. However, I am having
> problems connecting the Furnace to the boiler. I read the error
> messages I am getting and I still cannot figure out how to fix the
> problem. Apparently I am having a problem with the branches and nodes.
> I created an AirLoop for the steam boiler. More or less, I am having
> trouble figuring out how to correct my errors. Any help or suggestions
> are appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Dimos
>
> P.S. I've uploaded my file.
>
>
> --- On *Mon, 8/4/08, JV Dirkes II /<jvd2pe@xxxxxxx>/* wrote:
>
> From: JV Dirkes II <jvd2pe@xxxxxxx>
> Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: need help w/ monthly gas usage
> results
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 9:07 PM
>
> Dear Dimos,
>
> I took a look at the new file, and it appears that:
>
> 1) You have two air loops. Each of those has a Furnace:HeatCool. One
> of the furnaces has a gas heating coil and the other has an
> electric coil.
> 2) You have a "Boiler:simple" (which is a hot water boiler) and a
> "Boiler:Steam" , but the only thing using either one is the Fan
> Coil in
> Zone 1405.
> 3) Therefore, neither of the Furnaces will use any energy from the
> Boilers because they're not using hot water or steam coils. In
> addition, the Boiler:Steam will not use any gas, because it has
> nothing connected to it.
> 4) If the Fan Coil has any load, the Boiler:Simple will provide it ...
> as long as the Boiler is available and the Fan coil operates.
> 5) Finally, you have created a Gas Equipment object called "Boiler",
> but it is not connected in any way with the heating loads, and
> therefore is not useful to you.
> 6) I think you should:
> a) Delete the "Boiler" Gas Equipment object. This is not the correct
> approach for a heating load.
> b) Connect the heating devices (Fan Coil or Furnace, whichever is
> proper) to the Boiler:Simple or Boiler:Steam. If you use
> Boiler:Steam, you'll need a Coil:Steam:AirHeati ng object in the
> Furnace or Fan Coil.
> c) Check the Fan Coil operation and confirm that it operates and also
> has some heating to perform. Also check to see that the Boiler:Simple
> is operating when you need it.
>
> That's all I can figure out right now. Good luck!
>
> --- In EnergyPlus_Support@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>, D T <ellinas.1984@
> ...> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the help. I modeled the ovens using the GAS EQUIPMENT
> object as well as the boiler. I did this in order to get monthly gas
> usage values for one entire year for the entire faclity. They closely
> matched the faclity's gas bills. For the boiler, I used the GAS
> EQUIPMENT object because I had some problems using the STEAM BOILER
> object in EnergyPlus.
> >
> > I specified all the inputs in the STEAM BOILER object yet I don't
> get any monthly output results. I do not know why I am not getting any
> values for the steam boiler. Do you know why this could be happening?
> Also, I have yet to specify the fans for the ovens. But, I would like
> to ask, under which object in the Fans category of EnergyPlus would I
> use to model the fans?
> >
> > Thanks again for the help. I will upload my idf file.
> >
> > Dimos
> >
> > --- On Fri, 8/1/08, JV Dirkes II <jvd2pe@...> wrote:
> >
> > From: JV Dirkes II <jvd2pe@...>
> > Subject: [EnergyPlus_ Support] Re: need help w/ monthly gas
> usage results
> > To: EnergyPlus_Support@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Friday fan for circulation; the energy for these fans should
> > be included in your model.
> >
> > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@ yahoogroups. com, D T <ellinas.1984@ ...>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for the suggestion. Since I have never modeled boilers nor
> > ovens in EnergyPlus, could you perhaps steer me toward the objects I
> > would need to work with. I know that for boilers there are several
> > objects. The plant I am modeling uses boilers for steam
> generation, so
> > would I need to use the steam boiler option? Also, for the
> ovens, what
> > object do you suggest I work with?
> > >
> > > Assuming I get these to work properly after modeling them, how
> would
> > I get them to report in the ABUPS report?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for helping me with this.
> > >
> > > Dimos
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 7/31/08, JV Dirkes II <jvd2pe@> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: JV Dirkes II <jvd2pe@>
> > > Subject: [EnergyPlus_ Support] Re: need help w/ monthly gas usage
> results
> > > To: EnergyPlus_Support@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 8:08 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Dimos,
> > >
> > > The Boiler and ovens will operate on different schedules with
> > > different loads and will have different part load efficiencies.
> > > Therefore, I think you should model them separately, not as a
> combined
> > > object.
> > >
> > > I have not modeled ovens before in E+, but I have applied them in
> > > buildings. A typical oven will lose heat to the zone it occupies
> > > through the oven walls, so you'll need to know the insulation
> value of
> > > those walls and calculate that rate. The rate will vary as the
> oven
> > > warms up and cools down, so you will need to know the operating
> > schedule.
> > >
> > > An oven also loses heat through the stack. That is the amount
> which
> > > should be assigned to the "Fraction Lost" field.
> > >
> > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@ yahoogroups. com, D T
> <ellinas.1984@ ...>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the help. I now understand why I'm not getting
> values.
> > > However, my ultimate goal is to obtain monthly gas usage
> values for
> > > one boiler and 4 ovens for the facility I am modeling. Since I'm
> > > trying to model a boiler and 4 ovens, could I just simply
> specify the
> > > total power input from the boiler and ovens (in watts) under
> the GAS
> > > EQUIPMENT object? When I did that, I got an error in my
> simulation. Or
> > > do I need to use the boiler object and something else for the
> ovens?
> > > I'm still struggling with trying to get gas usage values for
> this part
> > > of my work. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > > Dimos
> > > >
> > > > --- On Mon, 7/28/08, JV Dirkes II <jvd2pe@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: JV Dirkes II <jvd2pe@>
> > > > Subject: [EnergyPlus_ Support] Re: need help w/ monthly gas
> usage
> > results
> > > > To: EnergyPlus_Support@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 12:48 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dear Dimos,
> > > >
> > > > I took a look at your file and I think your problem is this:
> > > >
> > > > 1) You have an ELECTRIC heating coil in the furnace.
> > > > 2) Since the Furnace is the only heating object, and its
> coil uses
> > > > electricity, there is no load for the Boiler:Steam.
> > > > 3) Therefore, there is no gas consumption.
> > > >
> > > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@ yahoogroups. com, "ellinas.1984"
> > > > <ellinas.1984@ ...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello group,
> > > > > The facility I am modeling has two boilers. I specified one of
> them
> > > > > under the boiler object in EnergyPlus just to see how it would
> > run. I
> > > > > also specified the gas rate schedule. However, when I run the
> > > > > simulation and view the results, I get values of zero for the
> > monthly
> > > > > gas usages. Unlike the results from the electricity rate
> schedule
> > > that
> > > > > I specified, where it shows the monthly usage in the results,
> I get
> > > > > nothing for the gas. Is there anyone out there that knows
> how to
> > help
> > > > > me solve this problem?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > Dimos
> > > > >
> > > > > p.s. I uploaded my idf file. It is bakery3.idf with the
> subtitle
> > "gas
> > > > > rate usage values" under the problem submittal folder.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
--
Richard A. Raustad
Senior Research Engineer
Florida Solar Energy Center
University of Central Florida
1679 Clearlake Road
Cocoa, FL 32922-5703
Phone: (321) 638-1454
Fax: (321) 638-1439 or 1010
Visit our web site at: http://www.fsec.ucf.edu
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