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RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Tutorial example in instruction Exercise 1B.
Hi, Bob
When you move the window to the other wall, the surface vector is still pointing East, which is now inside the zone.
0.0., 0, 2.40, !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 1 {m}
0.0, 0, 0.7, !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 2 {m}
0.0, 6.00, 0.7, !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 3 {m}
0.0, 6.00, 2.40; !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 4 {m}
When you change the 8.0 to 0.0, the order of the vertices has not be changed. To point the vector the other direction, you interchange the lines as below. Note that the last line has a semicolon, the first line must still have a comma.
0.0, 6.00, 2.40, !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 4 {m}
0.0, 6.00, 0.7, !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 3 {m}
0.0, 0, 0.7, !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 2 {m}
0.0, 0, 2.40; !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 1 {m}
When you stand outside the zone and look at the widnow, the order whould be top left corner, counter clockwise as declared in the IDF.
This is a very common error, even when you use SketchUp or DesignBuilding to create the model.
For the same reason, the floor and ceiling need to be re-order and not by simply changing the height. The vector for the floor points downward, and the vectore for the ceiling pointing upwards. The rule is that all the surfaces of a zone have the vector pointing outwards.
Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: rwelch4@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 11:04:37 -0500
Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Tutorial example in instruction Exercise 1B.
Dr. Li,
Finally got a few minutes to redo the tutorial with your new instruction. I did add the 2 x 3m windows for the east and west- I figured out I had to change the x to 0 to put the west window on the west wall. I ran the simulation and still had one error ** Severe ** GetSurfaces: Some Outward Facing angles of subsurfaces differ significantly from base surface.
** ~~~ ** ...use Output:Diagnostics,DisplayExtraWarnings; to show more details on individual surfaces. The building on the true view looks right though.
What should I do about the above error?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: YuanLu Li
> Sent: Nov 1, 2009 12:58 PM
> To: Linda
> Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Tutorial example in instruction Exercise 1B.
>
>
The buildingSurface:Detail is as follows:
>
> BuildingSurface:Detailed,
> ZONE SURFACE EAST, !- Name
> Wall, !- Surface Type
> LTWALL, !- Construction Name
> ZONE ONE, !- Zone Name
> Outdoors, !- Outside Boundary Condition
> , !- Outside Boundary Condition Object
> SunExposed, !- Sun Exposure
> WindExposed, !- Wind Exposure
> 0.50, !- View Factor to Ground
> 4, !- Number of Vertices
> 8.00, 0, 2.70, !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 1 {m}
> 8.00, 0 ,0, !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 2 {m}
> 8.00,6.00, 0, !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 3 {m}
> 8.00,6.00,2.70; !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 4 {m}
>
> In the computer program, the number is converded and stored as a floating point number. You have heard that a number 5.0 can become 4.9999999, or 5.00000000001.
>
> When you enter the widow dimension the same as the base area, one number can be converted high and one number can be converted low for the two objects.
>
> When you take the difference between the two for area check, the result is what you get in the error message.
>
> The message is saying that the window area is larger than the wall.
>
> For the East Wall X is the same for the four vertices, it should stay as is. If you change that, the window will not be on the same surface.
>
> y = 0 and y = 6.0 is the left and right hand edge of the wall. The window should be smaller than this width. If you have a door, the door space must also be allowed for.
>
> z = 0 and z=2.7 is the height of the wall. z = 0.6 and z = 2.4 can be a reasonable window space. (2 ft from the floor and 1 ft from the ceiling.)
>
>
> 8.00, 0, 2.40, !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 1 {m}
> 8.00, 0, 0.7, !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 2 {m}
> 8.00, 6.00, 0.7, !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 3 {m}
> 8.00, 6.00, 2.40; !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 4 {m}
>
> I have left the width untouched to give you a full width window. If it still complains, please change the middle column (Y) to 0.01 and 5.99. Because the program is comparing the area, you may get away with the full width window.
>
> Do a similar change for the West window.
>
> If you change the x = 8.0 to a different number, the window will no longer be on the same plane as the wall.
>
> There is a diagram in the Getting Started Document, for a 2 x 3m window, in Step 5 below.
>
> If you follow that diagram and center the window in the middle of the wall, the offset will be (6 - 3)/2 = 1.5 and (2.7-2.0)/2 = 0.35
>
> 8.00, 1.50, 2.35, !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 1 {m}
> 8.00, 1.50, 0.35, !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 2 {m}
> 8.00, 4.50, 0.35, !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 3 {m}
> 8.00, 4.50, 2.35; !- X,Y,Z ==> Vertex 4 {m}
>
> This is in the Exercise 1B-solution.idf.
>
> <http://graphics.hotmail.com/greypixel.gif>> Dr. Li
>
>
>
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> From: rwelch4@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 12:09:47 -0500
> Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Tutorial example in instruction Exercise 1B.
>
>
> Dr. Li,
> Thank you that did help. I do have a new problem though. using the same tutorial I was a little confused with entering the X,Y,Z, coordinates for the windows so I used the coordinates from the buildingsurface- details-the east and west walls for the east and west windows. I ran the simulation and had the following errors:
>
> Program Version,EnergyPlus 4.0.0.024, 11/1/2009 12:00 PM,IDD_Version 4.0.0.024
> ** Severe ** GetHTSubSurfaceData: Surface Openings have too much area for base surface=ZONE SURFACE EAST
> ** ~~~ ** Opening Surface creating error=EAST WINDOW
> ** Severe ** GetHTSubSurfaceData: Surface Openings have too much area for base surface=ZONE SURFACE WEST
> ** ~~~ ** Opening Surface creating error=WEST WINDOW
> ** Severe ** GetSurfaceData: Zero or negative surface area, Surface=ZONE SURFACE EAST
> ** Severe ** GetSurfaceData: Zero or negative surface area, Surface=ZONE SURFACE WEST
> ** Fatal ** Fatal error discovered in GetSurfaceData, see previous messages
> ...Summary of Errors that led to program termination:
> ..... Reference severe error count=4
> ..... Last severe error=GetSurfaceData: Zero or negative surface area, Surface=ZONE SURFACE WEST
> ************* Fatal error -- final processing. More error messages may appear.
> ************* Testing Individual Branch Integrity
> ************* All Branches passed integrity testing
> ************* Testing Individual Supply Air Path Integrity
> ************* All Supply Air Paths passed integrity testing
> ************* Testing Individual Return Air Path Integrity
> ************* All Return Air Paths passed integrity testing
> ************* No node connection errors were found.
> ************* EnergyPlus Terminated--Fatal Error Detected. 0 Warning; 4 Severe Errors; Elapsed Time=00hr 00min 3.00sec
>
> Again, thanks for your help
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: YuanLu Li
>> Sent: Oct 31, 2009 12:54 PM
>> To: Linda
>> Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Tutorial example in instruction Exercise 1B.
>>
>>
Just to show those who has not seen Exercise 1B in the Getting Started Document Tutorial.
>>
>> Exercise 1B. Add Windows
>>
>> Objective: Learn how to add materials, constructions, and a surface using 3-D coordinates.
>>
>> 1) In EP-Launch, with input file Exercise1A.idf still selected, press â??Edit ? IDF Editorâ??. This will open Exerciise1A.idf in the IDF Editor, a tool that assists in editing EnergyPlus input files (idf).
>>
>> 2) In IDF Editor, select File ï? Save Options . . . and set â??Saved Orderâ?? to â??Original with New at Topâ??, and â??Special Format for Some Objectsâ?? to â??Yes.â?? Check the â??Set as Defaultâ?? box. (This will place you new solution on top of the file. as in Exercise 1B -solution.idf)
>>
>> 3) In IDF Editor, Select File ï? Save As . . . and save this file as Exercise1B.idf.
>>
>> 4) Create the construction definition for the windows which are double-pane clear gas with an air space:
>> ï?® Using File ï? Open Dataset, (This is new in Version 4) open the window glass materials dataset file,
>> WindowGlassMaterials.idf
>> ï?® Scroll down the Class list and select â??WindowMaterial:Glazingâ??.
>> Hint: In IDF Editor, View ï? Show Classes with Objects Only (or ctl-L) will hide all empty object types from the class list.
>> ï?® Locate the object which defines the material properties for â??CLEAR 6MMâ??. Select this
>> object (by clicking on the column heading).
>> ï?® Using Edit ï? Copy Object (or the toolbar button, or ctl-C), copy this object.
>> ï?® Switch windows to file Exercise1B.idf and paste the window material into this file. (Verify
>> that is had been added by going to WindowMaterial:Glazing to view the object.)
>> ï?® Open dataset file WindowGasMaterials.idf.
>> ï?® Locate â??AIR 3MMâ??, copy it and paste it into Exercise1B.idf.
>> ï?® In Exercise1B.idf, select the â??Constructionâ?? class. There are three constructions predefined
>> for the walls, roof, and floor.
>> ï?® Press â??New Objâ?? to create a new blank Construction object.
>> ï?® Name this new construction â??DOUBLE PANE WINDOWâ??.
>> ï?® Use the pulldown list to select â??CLEAR 6MMâ?? for the outside layer, then press â??Enterâ?? or
>> â??Returnâ?? to save this entry and move to the next field.
>> ï?® Select â??AIR 3MMâ?? for Layer 2, and â??CLEAR 6MMâ?? for Layer 3.
>>
>> 5) Add the east window (3m wide by 2m high, centered on wall, see the drawing in Figure 11 to determine coordinates):
>> ï?® Select â??FenestrationSurface:Detailedâ?? class.
>> ï?® Add a new object named â??EAST WINDOWâ??.
>> ï?® Set the remaining fields as listed:
>> Surface Type = Window
>> Construction Name of the Surface = DOUBLE PANE WINDOW
>> Base Surface Name = ZONE SURFACE EAST
>> OutsideFaceEnvironment Object = <blank>
>> View Factor to Ground = autocalculate
>> Name of shading control = <blank>
>> WindowFrameAndDivider Name = <blank>
>> Multiplier = 1
>> Number of Surface Vertex Groups = 4
>> Vertex coordinates = as determined from the drawing Figure 11. Coordinates in this input are in World Coordinates (all relative to the global origin of 0,0,0). Coordinates are specified as viewed from the outside of the surface, using the rules specified in the SurfaceGeometry object.
>>
>> 6) Add the west window, similar to the east window.
>>
>> 7) Add a new Output:Surfaces:List object, type= Details. This report produces a list of all surfaces in the eio output summarizing area, azimuth, tilt, etc.
>>
>> 8) Save and close the IDF file, select Exercise1B.idf in EP-Launch, run the simulation and view outputs.
>> ï?® Always review the err file for errors and warnings. Fix problems if needed and re-run.
>> ï?® Are the windows in the right place in the dxf drawing file. (Use the Drawing File button or
>> select the DXF file from View ï? Single File or from the Quick-Open panel).
>> ï?® Review the surface details report in the eio file, search for â??Zone/Shading Surfacesâ?? to
>> find this report. (Use the Text Output button, Quick Open â??eioâ?? button, or select from the
>> single file menu, or use F7). This report is easier to read by pasting this section into a
>> spreadsheet and using the text to columns function with comma as a delimiter).
>> ï?® Open the csv output file and compare the heating and cooling loads with the results from
>> Exercise1A.csv.
>>
>> <http://graphics.hotmail.com/greypixel.gif>
>> If the person has reach (7) by doing the exercise step by step, the question on what editor to use should not have arisen.
When you reach (7), you are still in IDFeditor.
All the class names are listed on the left pane window.
Go to Edit and 'find'. Type in the class name you want (just part of it may do) say, Output:surface click 'FInd'. You will be directed to that class group.
The Output:surfaces:List is still empty. Click on that and 'New object'.
This is the same as you did with the other object earlier on. What you did not know is that you can use Edit and Find as in any other Window applications.
'Details' is one of the available Report Types. If you click the blue area, there will be a down triangle on the right hand side. Click that for the drop down menu, and the 'details' will appear as one of the choices. You can add more objects with the other choices. As you add more objects, the number on the left pane will increase for that class.
If you wanted to know what are the other report types, go and read it from the IO Manual, using search.
So, it is not that difficult, if you follow the tutorial and get a few tips.
Dr. Li
>>
>>
>>
>> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> From: linda@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:51:43 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Tutorial example in instruction Exercise 1B.
>>
>>
You use the IDF Editor. or, a text editor.
>>
>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 01:37:25 -0000, "rwelch4" <<mailto:rwelch4@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>rwelch4@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> > Just downloaded Energyplus. Starting using the written tutorials in the
>> > instructions to learn how to use this. Under instruction 7 in exercise
>> 1b
>> > it says "add new Output:Surfaces:List object, type=details..." I can't
>> > find where to do this. The Instructions are a little vague. Also is
>> there
>> > any online tutorials or better tutorials?
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
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>
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robwelch@presidents<WBR>village.com
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