[EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Insert exhaust

["Jean marais" <jeannieboef@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi James, Thanks. I did this already and the simulation runs as expected. I'm just imagining a box zone where I've specified a Zone Equip Inlet node after the AirLoopSplitter as well as a Zone Return Outlet node as one of the inlet nodes for the Mixer on the exhaust side. so I imagine these nodes laying on the box boundry.

Then I imagine zone equipment as laying inside the box, which are normally connected to the nodes on the boundry of the box. Because, there is no mention of the equipment inlet nodes on the airloop, i assume e+ makes this connection automatically and the correct connection of the equipment (like a ATU) is made because...and this is where I get lost:

If there's just the ATU, then fine, this can be automatic, but now with an additional exhaust fan that is zone equipment, coupled to the zone air and direct to outdoors, how does the airloop know to take air from the ATU instead of the fan?


--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Jim Dirkes" <jim@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Jean,
> 
> I do not think I understand your question..
> 
>  
> 
> You must identify the exhaust nodes in the EquipmentConnections object
> 
>  
> 
> 
> ZoneHVAC:EquipmentConnections
> 
> 
> 01_PCBkg
> 
> 
> ZoneEqlist_01_PCBkg
> 
> 
> InletNodeList_01_PCBkg
> 
> 
> ExhNodeList_01_PCBkg
> 
> 
> Node_01_PCBkg
> 
> 
> NodeOut_01_PCBkg
> 
>  
> 
> You need a NodeList if there is more than one exhaust node in the zone, e.g.
> 
> 
> NodeList
> 
> 
> ExhNodeList_01_PCBkg
> 
> 
> NodeIn_FanCoilRA_01_PCBkg
> 
> 
> NodeIn_ExhFan_01_PCBkg
> 
> 	
> 
>  
> 
> The OutdoorAir:Mixer Relief node is not considered zone exhaust (because
> it's at the system level.)
> 
> The Building Performance Team
> James V. Dirkes II, P.E., BEMP , LEED AP
> 1631 Acacia Drive NW
> Grand Rapids, MI 49504
> 616 450 8653
> 
>  
> 
> From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jean marais
> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 5:14 AM
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Insert exhaust
> 
>  
> 
>   
> 
> when applying the Zone exhaust nodes in equipment connections for the extra
> wc exhaust, should I also list the air loop zone exhaust node?
> 
> ZoneHVAC:EquipmentConnections,
> Underground:Basement, !- Zone Name
> Underground:BasementEquipment, !- Zone Conditioning Equipment List Name
> Underground:Basement Supply Inlet, !- List Name: Zone Air Inlet Nodes
> Underground:Basement WC Exhaust Air Node, !- List Name: Zone Air Exhaust
> Nodes
> Underground:Basement Zone Air Node, !- Zone Air Node Name
> Underground:Basement Return Outlet; !- Zone Return Air Node Name
> 
> --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jean marais"
> <jeannieboef@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks James...I'll give it a crack.
> > 
> > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jim Dirkes" <jim@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Forgot to say...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > You must create a new inlet and outlet node for the fan.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The Building Performance Team
> > > James V. Dirkes II, P.E., BEMP , LEED AP
> > > 1631 Acacia Drive NW
> > > Grand Rapids, MI 49504
> > > 616 450 8653
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > From: Jim Dirkes [mailto:jim@] 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 4:05 PM
> > > To: 'EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:%27EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> '
> > > Subject: RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Insert exhaust
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Jean,
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > It is essentially the same as any other fan for flow, pressure rise,
> > > efficiency. It is treated differently for the purpose of air / mass
> balance
> > > within a zone. An air loop fan is assumed to provide the same amount of
> > > air as it returns, maintaining a mass flow balance.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Keep in mind that you must know the amount of outdoor air that is
> introduced
> > > to each zone as a result of your Sizing, Controller:Outdoor Air or other
> > > outdoor air-introducing objects. The Fan:ZoneExhaust extracts air from
> the
> > > zone (only) and E+ "watches" to make sure that you've got an equal
> amount of
> > > air to replace it from your air loop or other sources. If not, it
> complains
> > > with a warning. Actually it normally complains with 100,000+ warnings!
> The
> > > OutdoorAir:Mixer seems to respond nicely to maintain a balance by
> extracting
> > > less air from the air loop when there is an exhaust fan in the zone.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Finally, if your Fan:ZoneExhaust operates at different times than your
> air
> > > loop, including differing schedules or cycling operation of either the
> > > exhaust fan or air loop fan, there will be an imbalance in airflow and
> > > warnings will result.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The Building Performance Team
> > > James V. Dirkes II, P.E., BEMP , LEED AP
> > > 1631 Acacia Drive NW
> > > Grand Rapids, MI 49504
> > > 616 450 8653
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> > > [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jean marais
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 3:22 PM
> > > To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> > > Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: Insert exhaust
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi James, I've never used this. Does this work without connecting it to
> the
> > > existing AirLoop? If so, what nodes should I connect it to? Do I create
> new
> > > nodes? In the IO ref, the example actually uses what looks like nodes
> > > seperate from the AirLoop and the !comments say zone exhaust node and
> > > exhaust fan outlet node and says "Air node" as appossed to the usual
> AirLoop
> > > Node phrasing...
> > > 
> > > How does it work?
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > 
> > > Jean
> > > 
> > > --- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jim Dirkes" <jim@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > How about Fan:ZoneExhaust?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > The Building Performance Team
> > > > James V. Dirkes II, P.E., BEMP , LEED AP
> > > > 1631 Acacia Drive NW
> > > > Grand Rapids, MI 49504
> > > > 616 450 8653
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> > > > [mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Vinay
> > > Devanathan
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 10:48 AM
> > > > To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> > > <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support%40yahoogroups.com> 
> > > > Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Insert exhaust
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > You can use the ZoneVentilation:DesignAirFlowRate object under Zone
> > > AirFlow
> > > > Class.
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Jean marais <jeannieboef@> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > What's the simplest way to insert an extra, direct to outdoors,
> exhaust
> > > fan
> > > > into a zone that already has an airloop?
> > > > I'm sorry, this question has been has been asked...What's the simplest
> way
> > > > to insert an extra, direct to outdoors, exhaust fan into a zone that
> > > already
> > > > has an airloop?
> > > > 
> > > > Do I create a fictitious zone inside the normal zone with it's own
> AirLoop
> > > > and use an additional zonecrossmixing object for the makeup air out of
> the
> > > > normal zone.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>




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