I am not that interested in a tall building. It is by default, not energy efficient.
Which strategy to use depends on a number of factors. It is easy simply to try them out. I did that a few years back in 2007.
=====================
Before the introduction of the SketchUp plug-in, the zone origins are usually 0,0,0. Adding number values to these would move the zone. Simply making them (0,0,0,) (0,0,4,) (0,0,8,) ... I can use the same geometry on the ground floor (0,0,0,) to make the higher floors without changing the z coordinate values in the building surface objects.
I can create multi-storey building very quickly using cut and paste, and then fine the zone prefix names to change the zone name. I can do the same using the MACRO's.
I am not sure whether this is still possible using the 'relative' flag.
=========================
At that time, I would complete a five storey model and add gaps between 2,3 and 3,4. 5 is the top floor. By changing the z values for 3, 4 and 5, the building is raised to a new height. I could also move the mid floor up and down the gaps, by change one z value.
=========================
When simulating the tall buiding, the 2, mid and 4 results should be very close. 1 and 5 can be quite different from the Mid floor.
If 2,3,4 levels are not close, then the multiplier simulation would probably not accurate.
Jim's method is trying to force 2 and 4 nearer to each other, by coupling 1 and 5. This may not happen in a real building.
I am using 2 and 4 to examine the cause of any large differences. Correct them if nessary.
If 5 is really too warm or cold, then another floor may be added below 4, to reduce the differences to 3. If they are still very much apart, there must be some other factors involved.
I am only interested in finding problems related to energy savings, and not in producing a report for a client.
If 1 and 5 provided the same result, then 2 and 4 are not needed.
=====================
When using the EPlus MACRO to add a floor, after defining the macro, each floor is represent by one line of macro call.
The long simulation time is usually an issue. You can create two macro files, one complete with all floors and one with gaps.
This is why I seldom use the free GUI software for building surface input.
Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: sanphawat@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:27:01 +0000
Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: What is the best modelling strategy ? I need help to clarify this issue!!!
__._,_.___
Primary EnergyPlus support is found at:
http://energyplus.helpserve.com or send a message to energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx
The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
http://www.energyplus.gov
The group web site is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
Attachments are currently allowed but be mindful that not everyone has a high speed connection. Limit attachments to small files.
EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.
![]()
__,_._,___
Which strategy to use depends on a number of factors. It is easy simply to try them out. I did that a few years back in 2007.
=====================
Before the introduction of the SketchUp plug-in, the zone origins are usually 0,0,0. Adding number values to these would move the zone. Simply making them (0,0,0,) (0,0,4,) (0,0,8,) ... I can use the same geometry on the ground floor (0,0,0,) to make the higher floors without changing the z coordinate values in the building surface objects.
I can create multi-storey building very quickly using cut and paste, and then fine the zone prefix names to change the zone name. I can do the same using the MACRO's.
I am not sure whether this is still possible using the 'relative' flag.
=========================
At that time, I would complete a five storey model and add gaps between 2,3 and 3,4. 5 is the top floor. By changing the z values for 3, 4 and 5, the building is raised to a new height. I could also move the mid floor up and down the gaps, by change one z value.
=========================
When simulating the tall buiding, the 2, mid and 4 results should be very close. 1 and 5 can be quite different from the Mid floor.
If 2,3,4 levels are not close, then the multiplier simulation would probably not accurate.
Jim's method is trying to force 2 and 4 nearer to each other, by coupling 1 and 5. This may not happen in a real building.
I am using 2 and 4 to examine the cause of any large differences. Correct them if nessary.
If 5 is really too warm or cold, then another floor may be added below 4, to reduce the differences to 3. If they are still very much apart, there must be some other factors involved.
I am only interested in finding problems related to energy savings, and not in producing a report for a client.
If 1 and 5 provided the same result, then 2 and 4 are not needed.
=====================
When using the EPlus MACRO to add a floor, after defining the macro, each floor is represent by one line of macro call.
The long simulation time is usually an issue. You can create two macro files, one complete with all floors and one with gaps.
This is why I seldom use the free GUI software for building surface input.
Dr. Li
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: sanphawat@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:27:01 +0000
Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: What is the best modelling strategy ? I need help to clarify this issue!!!
Dr. Li,
Thanks for great thought. I have another question about matching surfaces. What do you think about Jason's clarification on matching surfaces?
--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, YuanLu Li <yli006@...> wrote:
>
>
> No one said that the multiplier must be even, and there must be equal or gaps on top and bottom of the mid floor. You are not going to design a mid floor and then remove it for a two storey building. Can a two storey building with no roof? Is there a plenum or attic? A two storey building may have 5 or 6 levels and not just 2. 3 storey, no gaps. 5 storey 1 gap above, and 1 gab below. Can you have no gap below? What do you do with 4 storey? I should just model it in full. You are paid to do so.If the floors are of the same design, the full building is not difficult to create. Do not forget the plenum zones, false ceilings, etc. Unless you are an experienced building designer who can under the result listings, my advice is do not try the short cut. Let EPlus do the calculations rather than based on your estimation. I am not going to pay you for a six green star report with gaps in the building. Dr. Li
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> From: eee.javed@...
> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 18:16:28 +0530
> Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: What is the best modelling strategy ? I need help to clarify this issue!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Interesting Discussion:)
>
>
> If I understand correctly.. for 10 floors we have to create 1 ground floor, 1 Top Floor and one middle floor with correct height and 8 floor multiplier for middle floor then software will create equal floors downside and upside of the middle floor.
>
>
> What happens if we have odd number of Floors like 3, 5,7 etc.?
>
>
> Please correct me if i am wrong..
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 3:55 AM, obb <sanphawat@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you Jason, it is really helpful.
>
>
>
> Just would like to review this, if I have 10 story building
>
>
>
> [Top floor] ------ at actual elevation
>
>
>
> <gap>
>
>
>
> [Mid floor] ------ at actual mid building height (on center)
>
> , multiplier = 8
>
> <gap>
>
>
>
> [Ground floor]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Javed Iqbal, LEED AP, CEA
>
>
> Energy Analyst
>
Thanks for great thought. I have another question about matching surfaces. What do you think about Jason's clarification on matching surfaces?
--- In EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, YuanLu Li <yli006@...> wrote:
>
>
> No one said that the multiplier must be even, and there must be equal or gaps on top and bottom of the mid floor. You are not going to design a mid floor and then remove it for a two storey building. Can a two storey building with no roof? Is there a plenum or attic? A two storey building may have 5 or 6 levels and not just 2. 3 storey, no gaps. 5 storey 1 gap above, and 1 gab below. Can you have no gap below? What do you do with 4 storey? I should just model it in full. You are paid to do so.If the floors are of the same design, the full building is not difficult to create. Do not forget the plenum zones, false ceilings, etc. Unless you are an experienced building designer who can under the result listings, my advice is do not try the short cut. Let EPlus do the calculations rather than based on your estimation. I am not going to pay you for a six green star report with gaps in the building. Dr. Li
> To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> From: eee.javed@...
> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 18:16:28 +0530
> Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: What is the best modelling strategy ? I need help to clarify this issue!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Interesting Discussion:)
>
>
> If I understand correctly.. for 10 floors we have to create 1 ground floor, 1 Top Floor and one middle floor with correct height and 8 floor multiplier for middle floor then software will create equal floors downside and upside of the middle floor.
>
>
> What happens if we have odd number of Floors like 3, 5,7 etc.?
>
>
> Please correct me if i am wrong..
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 3:55 AM, obb <sanphawat@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you Jason, it is really helpful.
>
>
>
> Just would like to review this, if I have 10 story building
>
>
>
> [Top floor] ------ at actual elevation
>
>
>
> <gap>
>
>
>
> [Mid floor] ------ at actual mid building height (on center)
>
> , multiplier = 8
>
> <gap>
>
>
>
> [Ground floor]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Javed Iqbal, LEED AP, CEA
>
>
> Energy Analyst
>
__._,_.___
Primary EnergyPlus support is found at:
http://energyplus.helpserve.com or send a message to energyplus-support@xxxxxxxx
The primary EnergyPlus web site is found at:
http://www.energyplus.gov
The group web site is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergyPlus_Support/
Attachments are currently allowed but be mindful that not everyone has a high speed connection. Limit attachments to small files.
EnergyPlus Documentation is searchable. Open EPlusMainMenu.pdf under the Documentation link and press the "search" button.
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__,_._,___