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Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: [Bldg-sim] Tools to draw HVAC diagrams



Plus the EnergyPlus Development Team is a diverse set of developers -- each of whom is responsible for their own documentation.  For better or worse, we don't have a technical editing team that massages (or worse, tries to explain) the concepts.  So, the developers do the diagrams in the method they prefer or is easiest for them or is what they use when they create technical papers for publication.

At 07:25 AM 6/12/2012, Karen Walkerman wrote:


I believe that the diagrams in the manual were created over a number of years as new were implemented.  Using a consistent style at this point in time means that someone would have to go back and re-do all the diagrams.

--
Karen

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 10:42 PM, Pavel Dybskiy <pdybskiy@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
 

Why E+ team doesn't exercise any of those diagram styles consistently throughout  the manuals?

It's hard to believe that E+ developers don't use anything like Dr. Li  had suggested unless they are ..... born of water and spirit.

Is there any historical explanation to that?

Pavel
  



On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 7:55 AM, YuanLu Li <yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
 

The diatrams are good, except that there are many parallel lines, because the loops are placed side by side.
 
If you place the zone on top as the first page, followed by system,  heating/ cooling, condensing, etc. , the demand is always on top, and supply at the bottom.  The diagram would line up with the IDF and make it a better debugging tool.
 
Node name and data can be included, 9on screen or on the print out page) may be even as a separate layer, but displaied together.  Linking the set points with the actuaters and the design values.
 
Just some suggestions.
 
 
 
 Dr. Li  

 
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: jeremiah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:29:56 -0700
Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: [Bldg-sim] Tools to draw HVAC diagrams


 
The new design builder HVAC diagrams (and design tools) are excellent-see attached.. I recently purchased a copy and took the training. The soon to be released version also has HVAC templates for ASHRAE system types + more.. If anyone ever needs an IDF with some specific systems I could produce one for them rather quickly..
Jeremiah D. Crossett
CleanTech Analytics
503-688-8951
www.cleantechanalytics.com


This document may contain valuable information proprietary to CleanTech Analytics which is private and confidential. It may not be shared, copied, stored or transmitted in any form without the prior written consent of CleanTech Analytics



On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 12:16 PM, YuanLu Li <yli006@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
 

Your diagrams are very good and well illustrated.  However, it does not have a topological view that shows relationship of the whole HVAC system.
 

The attached diagram is modified from the EPlus lecture notes.
 
Which tool is used to produce the diagram is not important.  I think, the diagram provide more information and in a complete system view.  It can be enhanced to show all the IDF objects, when enlarged in sections.   
 
The diagram can be enlarged in sections and preserving the relative  demand and supply relationship.  More additional special equipment may be added in the same demand/supply relationship.
 
I have also seen one diagram with the demand on top and supply at the bottom, in three long pages with heating and cooling plants side by side.  If you then add list, connection, equipment side by side onthe diagram, it make the IDF tracing very easy. Set point managers can be added to show the set values, and control actuators.
 
The arrow between the branches should mean "use the outlet node name as the next inlet node name".
The round dots should be replaced with an arrow.
 
The zone and OA mixer box is actually, a mixer and splitter with by-pass branch inside them.
 
Infiltration and ventilation in a zone are additional branches feeding the mixer from OD air, and exhaust  the zone air via the internal splitter to OD.

I do not like the diagrams in the New OpenStudio.  It only show part of a system.  The connection number in the new format are also not for human interface.  Building geometry input is from a third party.
 
 Dr. Li  

 
To: bldg-sim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: pdybskiy@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 17:45:14 -0400
Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Re: [Bldg-sim] Tools to draw HVAC diagrams

 
Here is a Visio-made diagram
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxMkJIZCZN5ESnJYVFpsR3lTZVk

What do I miss? Is it satisfactory for a report/manual/paper?

First round, about 3 hours, about 10 iterations.
Just one click to get all formatting you need.
Very fast learning track.
Very useful Format painter and very flexible connectors
Less frustrating experience comparing with Word which I used before.

Next time, I hope, it's gonna take 20-30 min

Pavel


On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 12:08 AM, CleanTech Analytics < jeremiah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Would you say that Open studio is finally "ready" for real world projects? I have been a fan, and have made effort to use  it for years but just never found it to work very well (looks great tho)
If Open studio has got the bugs out I am sure many users would jump on board- so is it ready?

Best regards-
Jeremiah D. Crossett
CleanTech Analytics
503-688-8951
www.cleantechanalytics.com


This document may contain valuable information proprietary to CleanTech Analytics which is private and confidential. It may not be shared, copied, stored or transmitted in any form without the prior written consent of CleanTech Analytics



On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Pavel Dybskiy <pdybskiy@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Rob,

I have installed OpenStudio
I tried to import one of e+ example files, SolarCollectorFlatPlateWater.idf.
It looks like OpenStudio didn't recognize quite a few objects, e.g. IddObjectType: 'WaterHeater:Mixed'
Please advise.

Pavel


On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Guglielmetti, Robert < Robert.Guglielmetti@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
I would humbly submit OpenStudio (openstudio.nrel.gov) as a tool for diagramming these systems. The OpenStudio application has a visual HVAC system design tab in the interface that has been engineered to allow idiots like me to create ASHRAE standard system types, and customize from there as needed. While the graphics may not be super sexy, they tell the story. Further, after you've dragged and dropped your way to a functional and valid HVAC system description, you not only have a series of graphics that illustrate it, you also have underlying code describing this system in OpenStudio-speak, as well as EnergyPlus-speak, ready for simulation.

Rob Guglielmetti
NREL

________________________________________
From: bldg-sim-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [ bldg-sim-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pavel Dybskiy [pdybskiy@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 9:27 AM
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; bldg-sim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Bldg-sim] Tools to draw HVAC diagrams

Sorry for cross-posting,

Does anyone use MS Visio for sketching HVAC diagrams?
Is it a good alternative to Ms Word, which is somehow tolerable for simple diagrams, but gets really out of hands for bigger diagrams?
The shapes, which are included in Visio, are they helpful, meaningful, give professional look?

Somebody is using Excel (might be lacking flexibility when topology is unknown).
Somebody is using Inkscape.
Any other thoughts
Thank you,

Pavel Dybskiy


On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Jim Dirkes < jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx < mailto:jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

No ?tool? Pavel, just Excel with formatted cells and arrows ? pretty unsophisticated, but easier (I think) than learning Inkscape.  I know of others using Inkscape, however, and it looks like a very capable tool.

The Building Performance Team
James V. Dirkes II, P.E., BEMP , LEED AP
1631 Acacia Drive NW
Grand Rapids, MI 49504
616 450 8653<tel:616%20450%208653>

From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx < mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> [ mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx < mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Pavel Dybskiy
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 6:18 PM
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx < mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Tools to draw HVAC diagrams



Hi Jim,
What tool do you use to draw your diagram?

Dear List,
I'm wondering if you can share your thoughts on your favorite tool to draft efficiently such diagrams.
Is there anything better than pencil and paper?

Thanks,

Paul


On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Jim Dirkes < jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx < mailto:jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Dear Forum,
The schematic I have attached is a common boiler plant piping configuration in my experience, using an individual constant speed pump for each boiler, plus a variable speed distribution pump.
Officially it?s a ?primary ? secondary pumping loop?.
I cannot make the primary pumps shut off when the corresponding boiler is inactive.  Has anyone successfully modeled this configuration?  Do you know of an example file with this configuration?
Thanks in advance.

[cid:image001.jpg@01CD4283.651E5C90]
Making me think?.
Why is it?  We routinely use miracles of creativity and technology that 50-100 years ago would be considered impossible or black magic ? and also assume that whole segments of society are incapable of helping themselves  or acting intelligently.  Is it a self-fulfilling expectation?




--
Best Regards,

Pavel Dybskiy
M.A.Sc <http://M.A.Sc>. Candidate, Department of Architectural Science
Faculty of Engineering, Architecture and Science, Ryerson University
E-mail: pdybskiy@xxxxxxxxxx < mailto:pdybskiy@xxxxxxxxxx>;
telephone: 647-984-4940<tel:647-984-4940>





--
Best
-p.d.

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--
Best
-p.d.


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--
Best
-p.d.


You






--
Best
-p.d.






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