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RE: [EnergyPlus_Support] Help
Jermiah,
These warnings might have been put in EP for geometry integrity testing. Any cube or energy plus zone enclosure must have atleast 6 surface provided that you have define the zone by using buildingsurface:detailed object (this is default surface with many geometry export). In my opinion it dosent really matter for your model. You can safely ignore it. May be ep development team can note it and� instigate this warning only incase of Buildingsurface detailed objects and not in surface objects that you have used.
Adil
www.geedindia.org
From: <mailto:jcrossett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>Jeremiah Crossett
Sent: 20-02-2014 03:01
To: <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Help [1 Attachment]
Yea, it is quite useful to be able to do a simple model with the roof simple object-- so now I am a bit concerned-- if anyone has further opinions on the attached model that uses only a roof, zone area and ceiling height to calculate volume I would like to hear.. The model uses loads and schedules from the commercial reference primary school, but with a roof of an actual school. The goal of the model is to evaluate roof PCM capacity, SRI and U value and nothing more- so a surface model is used. �The file will open in open studio, but has some "Material Property Phase Change Dual Curve" objects from a custom version of E+ I use.
The specific error I get from the attached file is:�
�Program Version,EnergyPlus, Version 8.1, YMD=2014.02.18 22:51,IDD_Version 8.1.0.008
� �************* Beginning Zone Sizing Calculations
� �** Warning ** GetSurfaceData: The total number of floors, walls, roofs and internal mass surfaces in Zone GYMNASIUM
� �** � ~~~ � ** is < 6. This may cause an inaccurate zone heat balance calculation.
� �** Warning ** GetSurfaceData: The total number of floors, walls, roofs and internal mass surfaces in Zone CAFETERIA
� �** � ~~~ � ** is < 6. This may cause an inaccurate zone heat balance calculation.
� �** Warning ** GetSurfaceData: The total number of floors, walls, roofs and internal mass surfaces in Zone CLASSROOM
� �** � ~~~ � ** is < 6. This may cause an inaccurate zone heat balance calculation.
� �** Warning ** GetSurfaceData: The total number of floors, walls, roofs and internal mass surfaces in Zone CORRIDOR & OTHER
� �** � ~~~ � ** is < 6. This may cause an inaccurate zone heat balance calculation.
� �** Warning ** Surfaces in Zone="GYMNASIUM" do not define an enclosure.
� �** � ~~~ � ** Number of surfaces <= 3, view factors are set to force reciprocity.
� �** Warning ** Surfaces in Zone="CAFETERIA" do not define an enclosure.
� �** � ~~~ � ** Number of surfaces <= 3, view factors are set to force reciprocity.
� �************* Testing Individual Branch Integrity
� �************* All Branches passed integrity testing
� �************* Testing Individual Supply Air Path Integrity
� �************* All Supply Air Paths passed integrity testing
� �************* Testing Individual Return Air Path Integrity
� �************* All Return Air Paths passed integrity testing
� �************* No node connection errors were found.
� �************* Beginning Simulation
� �************* Simulation Error Summary *************
� �************* EnergyPlus Warmup Error Summary. During Warmup: 0 Warning; 0 Severe Errors.
� �************* EnergyPlus Sizing Error Summary. During Sizing: 6 Warning; 0 Severe Errors.
� �************* EnergyPlus Completed Successfully-- 6 Warning; 0 Severe Errors; Elapsed Time=00hr 01min 46.73sec
Jeremiah D. Crossett��| Senior�Analyst��| �Phase Change Energy Solutions
120 E. Pritchard St. �| Asheboro, NC 27203�
�| Mobile�503-688-8951
<http://www.phasechange.com/>www.phasechange.com�
��<http://i.imgur.com/Sldxf.jpg>
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Niraj Poudel <<mailto:nirajpdl@xxxxxxxxx>nirajpdl@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> �
> The view factor for the roof probably assumes an infinite plane. Hence a 0.5 value. Is what my guess would be.
> Niraj
>
> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Jeremiah Crossett <<mailto:jcrossett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>jcrossett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> �
>> Possibly, but the very quick tests I did showed no noticeable difference when adding a zone with walls and a floor, compared to a roof surface and zone area x height.�
The benefit is a quick model of a roof, and it seems alright, but may look further given your opinion..
>>
>>
>> Jeremiah D. Crossett��| Senior�Analyst��| �Phase Change Energy Solutions
120 E. Pritchard St. �| Asheboro, NC 27203�
�| Mobile�503-688-8951
<http://www.phasechange.com/>www.phasechange.com�
��<http://i.imgur.com/Sldxf.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Joe Huang <<mailto:YJHuang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>YJHuang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> �
>>> Wouldn't that foul up the zone heat balance that depends on knowing the view factor or at least the area of each surface ?
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> On 2/19/2014 12:37 PM, Jeremiah Crossett wrote:
>>>> �
Depending on what you are doing, you might just as well ignore it-- for example if you want the surface to be fully adiabatic then you could remove it, and would get this warning.�
I have some models that are just roofs with zone area, ceiling height and internal loads per square foot-- and it seems to work as expected, but also produces this warning- �
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jeremiah D. Crossett��| Senior�Analyst��| �Phase Change Energy Solutions
120 E. Pritchard St. �| Asheboro, NC 27203�
�| Mobile�503-688-8951
<http://www.phasechange.com/>www.phasechange.com�
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Joe Huang <<mailto:YJHuang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>YJHuang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> �
>>>>> "Degenerate surfaces"� sound terrible!� Maybe you should go see a psychologist (just joking :-) )
>>>>>
>>>>> Seriously, I suggest you search through your IDF, find the� seven surfaces with less than two vertices (which only define a line and not a surface), and add the missing vertices.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/19/2014 11:58 AM, Oswaldo alonso Guzmán villalobos wrote:
>>>>>> �
Hellow, I try to simulate a building, when I simulate it, the energy plus gives the following message,
>>>>>> GetSurfaceData: There are 7 degenerate surfaces; Degenerate surfaces are those with number of sides < 3.
>>>>>> How fix this error?
Thanks.
>>>>>> �
Att. Oswaldo Alonso Guzmán Villalobos
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