According to the previous discussion, with PTAC template for cooling load/energy calculation, its not possible to control the humidity level. So if we want to control the humidity level with PTAC template (HVAC) under 60% RH according to the schedule and Thermostat set points are 18 and 26.7 C, is there any option? Some suggests to add Zone Control Thermostat and Humidistat separately but I tried several times, unfortunately did not get result. In that case, which is the best option and how. Thank you.
Sajal Chowdhury
B.Arch.(BUET), M.Arch.(BUET), M.Eng.(HU,Japan)C.
B.Arch.(BUET), M.Arch.(BUET), M.Eng.(HU,Japan)C.
On Thursday, April 14, 2016 2:04 AM, "Jean Marais jeannieboef@xxxxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support]" <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In the cooling case:
The ceiling fan cannot reduce the load. If anything, the motor of the ceiling fan will add heat to the zone (which should be input as an electrical equipment load in the zone).
However, if you are controlling the drybulb zone thermal setpoint temperature with a program that raises it due to increased perceived thermal comfort due to the increased local air velocities induced by the ceiling fan, then the load may decrease due to the decreased difference between zone thermostat setpoint and the outdoor temperature as well as the increased difference between zone thermostat setpoint and the supply air temperature.
On 13 Apr 2016 3:18 pm, "Sajal Chowdhury sajal_c@xxxxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support]" <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Ademilson Xavier,Thank you for your suggestions and now it is working. I can control the humidity with Ideal Load Template. For PTAC, it is not possible. So I can calculate the monthly cooling load with the simple ideal loads system. In that case, if I want to calculate the cooling load with the Ideal Simple Template under the circumstances of having indoor ceiling fan, what will be the next step?Note: what is the basic difference between the various HVAC template for load calculation? If I use different template like PTAC or PTHP, is the cooling load similar as Ideal Load Template? Thank you so much.Sajal Chowdhury
B.Arch.(BUET), M.Arch.(BUET), M.Eng.(HU,Japan)C.On Wednesday, April 13, 2016 4:27 AM, "ademilson xavier ademilsonxavier@xxxxxxxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support]" <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Chowdhury;I was analyzing it better here. I suppose you will not be able to manage the humidity ratio through PTAC - Group.Another Group that I think it would be possÃble is Zone Controls - Thermostats and Humidistats. But if you want to use only PTAC as HVAC System so I do not know if it is so easy to do. I have not been using it.It is a suggestion only.My best regards;
De: "Sajal Chowdhurysajal sajal_c@xxxxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support]" <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Para: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Enviadas: Terça-feira, 12 de Abril de 2016 11:44
Assunto: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] "Energy Consumption"
Dear Ademilson, In that case for PTAC template , I did not find humidity control that I mentioned before. I also found fluctuations of cooling and heating load little bit difference between Ideal load/ PTAC/PTHP/VAV calculations, even I used the same parameters. I don't understand why this variation, because as far I know cooling and heating load will be same in all situations. Thanks and hope you got my point.
On Apr 12, 2016, at 10:59 PM, ademilson xavier ademilsonxavier@xxxxxxxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support] <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Hi Chowdhury;Good to now it!To set or analyze the Fan/coil efficiency in the PTAC (HVAC) you can use a Supply Fan Operating Mode Schedule Name Group within fields as Supply Fan Total Efficiency, Supply Fan Delta Pressure or Supply Fan Motor Efficiency.
De: "Sajal Chowdhury sajal_c@xxxxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support]" <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Para: "EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Enviadas: Terça-feira, 12 de Abril de 2016 9:14
Assunto: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] "Energy Consumption"
Dear Mr. Ademilson Xavier.Thank you for your great suggestions and it is working. In that case for the Template:Zone:IdealLoadsAir System" in the HVAC Templates Group I input the followings:HVACTemplate:Thermostat,
Thermostrat, !- Name
Heating-Supply-Air-Temp-Sch, !- Heating Setpoint Schedule Name
18, !- Constant Heating Setpoint {C}
Cooling-Supply-Air-Temp-Sch, !- Cooling Setpoint Schedule Name
26.7; !- Constant Cooling Setpoint {C}
!- =========== ALL OBJECTS IN CLASS: HVACTEMPLATE:ZONE:IDEALLOADSAIRSYSTEM ===========
HVACTemplate:Zone:IdealLoadsAirSystem,
Z-1, !- Zone Name
Thermostrat, !- Template Thermostat Name
Cooling-Supply-Air-Temp-Sch, !- System Availability Schedule Name
50, !- Maximum Heating Supply Air Temperature {C}
13, !- Minimum Cooling Supply Air Temperature {C}
0.0156, !- Maximum Heating Supply Air Humidity Ratio {kgWater/kgDryAir}
0.0077, !- Minimum Cooling Supply Air Humidity Ratio {kgWater/kgDryAir}
NoLimit, !- Heating Limit
, !- Maximum Heating Air Flow Rate {m3/s}
, !- Maximum Sensible Heating Capacity {W}
NoLimit, !- Cooling Limit
, !- Maximum Cooling Air Flow Rate {m3/s}
autosize, !- Maximum Total Cooling Capacity {W}
Heating-Supply-Air-Temp-Sch, !- Heating Availability Schedule Name
Cooling-Supply-Air-Temp-Sch, !- Cooling Availability Schedule Name
Humidistat, !- Dehumidification Control Type
0.7, !- Cooling Sensible Heat Ratio {dimensionless}
60, !- Dehumidification Setpoint {percent}
Humidistat, !- Humidification Control Type
60, !- Humidification Setpoint {percent}
None, !- Outdoor Air Method
0.00944, !- Outdoor Air Flow Rate per Person {m3/s}
, !- Outdoor Air Flow Rate per Zone Floor Area {m3/s-m2}
, !- Outdoor Air Flow Rate per Zone {m3/s}
, !- Design Specification Outdoor Air Object Name
None, !- Demand Controlled Ventilation Type
NoEconomizer, !- Outdoor Air Economizer Type
None, !- Heat Recovery Type
0.7, !- Sensible Heat Recovery Effectiveness {dimensionless}
0.65; !- Latent Heat Recovery Effectiveness {dimensionless}Now for the Facility Total HVAC Electric Demand Power (output), in that case how I can include Fan/coil efficiency with this IdealLoadsAir System (from where)? Thank you so much.Regards,Sajal Chowdhury
B.Arch.(BUET), M.Arch.(BUET), M.Eng.(HU,Japan)C.On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 8:40 PM, "ademilson xavier ademilsonxavier@xxxxxxxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support]" <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello Mr Chowdhury;Regarding Energy Consumption I think you could try some reports as "EnergyMeters" or "EndUseEnergyConsumptionElectricityMonthly" by Output:Table - Group and/or "Facility Total HVAC Electric Demand Power" by Output:Variable - Group. However the COP values and Efficiencyof Fan need to be set.Regarding to RH analysis you can use a "Maximun Heating/Cooling Supply Air Humidity Ratio" into HVAC "Template:Zone:IdealLoadsAir System" in the HVAC Templates Group.My best regards;
De: "Sajal Chowdhury sajal_c@xxxxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support]" <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Para: "EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Enviadas: Terça-feira, 12 de Abril de 2016 7:39
Assunto: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] "Energy Consumption"
Thank you. Yes I am using DX coil and Fan. But in that case if I want to calculate only cooling energy and Electric Consumption with the template of PTAC load and Thermostat (set point Heating 18C and cooling 26.7 C, RH=65%), I can manage the indoor set point but could not control the RH which I need (65%). Can you suggest?IDF,HVACTemplate:Thermostat,Thermostrat,Heating-Supply-Air-Temp-Sch,18,Cooling-Supply-Air-Temp-Sch,26.7;IDF,HVACTemplate:Zone:PTAC,Z-1,Thermostrat,autosize,autosize,autosize,,,Maximum, .0000025,,,Cooling-Supply-Air-Temp-Sch,FAN_SCH,BlowThrough, .8, 300, .9,SingleSpeedDX,Cooling-Supply-Air-Temp-Sch,autosize,autosize, 3,Electric,Heating-Supply-Air-Temp-Sch,autosize, .8,,,SupplyAirTemperature, 14, 11.11,SupplyAirTemperature, 50, 30,,,None,,autosize;Sajal Chowdhury
B.Arch.(BUET), M.Arch.(BUET), M.Eng.(HU,Japan)C.
Assistant Professor, Dept. of Architecture (Study Leave)
Chittagong University of Engineering & Technology Chittagong 4349, Bangladesh
Present Address:
Laboratory of Environmental Ergonomics
(Planning and Performances for Built Environment)
Division of Human Environmental Systems
Graduate School of Engineering
Hokkaido University, N13-W8, Kita-ku, Sapporo 060-8628, JAPAN
Mobile(P): +818096126951, E-MAIL: sajal_c@xxxxxxxxxOn Tuesday, April 12, 2016 7:23 PM, "Jim Dirkes jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support]" <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Inthink you will need to add the energy of individual components. E.g., fan + DX coil
On Tuesday, April 12, 2016, Sajal Chowdhury sajal_c@xxxxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support] <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Dear All,Is there any output variable for the calculation of direct "Energy Consumption" of HVAC system? Or how I can calculate Energy Consumption from EP simulation of HP/Ideal Load/VAV/ VAF etc. Thank you.Sajal Chowdhury
B.Arch.(BUET), M.Arch.(BUET), M.Eng.(HU,Japan)C.
--James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, LEED AP
CEO/President
The Building Performance Team Inc.
1631 Acacia Dr, GR, Mi 49504
Direct: 616.450.8653
jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Posted by: Sajal Chowdhury <sajal_c@xxxxxxxxx>
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