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Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Dedicated ceiling void model object



The measurements I made had non-LED lighting but poking my head above
the tiles on dozens of occasions indicated poorly insulated pipes and valves
and stuff like transformers that could easily elevate temperatures. IR cameras
are so inexpensive that it is easy to do a ceiling tile survey to confirm risk.

Also, if void is a common return then our normal assumptions 
about return air also get whacked.  -Jon
From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Jim Dirkes Jim@xxxxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support] <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 22 September 2020 10:51
To: Jon Hand jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support] <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Dedicated ceiling void model object
 
 

When the ceiling void does not adjoin an exterior wall, I suspect they matter little, especially when LED lighting is used. Have you had experience otherwise?


James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, BCxP
Team Lead - Building Performance
616 450 8653
Foresight Management

Coffee Conversation:

When reacting to others, I normally respond in one of three ways: 

  1. I Take delight in what’s said 
  2. I take it for consideration 
  3. I take offense 

#3 never helps. 

From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Jon Hand jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support] <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2020 5:20 AM
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [EnergyPlus_Support] Dedicated ceiling void model object
 
 

Ceiling voids....

I suspect that some of the gap between predictions and actual performance is
down to our attempts to ignore parts of a building we cannot see (and where care and
attention on site are also often sub-standard).  I have seen ceiling voids 5-10C over
the occupied space leading to radiant comfort issues.  Warm ceiling voids can also impact
raised floors above them.

For the last decade I have always explicitly represented such spaces.  It is 
not 'far too time consuming' when it leads to better performance information
and helps us design out excess temperatures within such spaces.

-Jon Hand, Glasgow Scotland, IBPSA fellow.
From: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Jean Marais jeannieboef@xxxxxxxxx [EnergyPlus_Support] <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 22 September 2020 08:10
To: EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <EnergyPlus_Support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [EnergyPlus_Support] Dedicated ceiling void model object
 
 

Dear Colleagues,

Should a viability study of developing a ceiling void model be made? The effect on room temperature response / behaviour when modeling a plenum zone vs. modeling an air layer in the ceiling buildup is not clear. The effect on yearly energy usage regarding using a plenum zone vs. modeling an air layer in the ceiling buildup is not clear. If it is significant, then it must be noted that modeling large buildings with many zones, each with an extra plenum zone is currently far too time consuming both in input and execution.

Does anyone have experience in this regard?

Jean



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Posted by: Jon Hand <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>


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