[Equest-users] Dehumidifier

YingQi Chen yingqi.chen at pertan.com
Wed Dec 15 12:42:25 PST 2010
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Hi eQuesters!

Who can give me an idea or suggestion? How can I model a gas dehumidifier by 
eQuest?

Any suggestions and advice are welcomed.

Yingqi Chen

44 E. Main St. Suite 403
Champaign,IL61820
The PERTAN Group
217-356-1348 ext 205 




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Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 2:02:40 PM
Subject: Equest-users Digest, Vol 33, Issue 13

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Ground source heat pump/ cooling tower hybrid
      (Anthony Hardman)
   2. Unwanted Reheat hours in Baseline Model (Walson, Kristy)
   3. 2-pipe fan coils w/ electric shoulder (Ana N.)
   4. Re: Does PTAC consumes less energy than FCU+DOAs? (Jenny Zhang)
   5. Re: 2-pipe fan coils w/ electric shoulder (Carol Gardner)
   6. Bad Building Components Exist error fix (Zabaneh, Christopher)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 13:35:13 -0700
From: "Anthony Hardman" <Anthony at GreenEngineer.com>
To: "'Dane Heimerman'" <daneh at mlnai.com>,
    <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Ground source heat pump/ cooling tower
    hybrid
Message-ID: <000601cb9b05$3ee5a410$bcb0ec30$@GreenEngineer.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

You'll have to calculate the heating portion of your hybrid loop separately
since DOE2 doesn't allow this setup.  



The easiest way I can think of would be to export the hourly GHEX report,
find the instances where the ground loop temperature dips below your design
setpoint, take the corresponding heating load served by the GHEX for that
hour and then replace that GHEX energy with boiler energy.  Don't forget to
properly account for pumping energy depending on how the loops will operate
as designed.  



Notice I said easiest, not the most accurate.  It's important to know how
this method will skew your results.  In this case, you'll artificially be
cooling your ground loop in the winter months (when the boiler is operating)
and pulling that energy back out in the summer cooling months for free.
This could have a significant impact on the annual average efficiency
(artificially inflating) of the heat pumps.  



Anthony Hardman, PE

LEED AP BD&C

Building Performance Analyst

<http://www.greenengineer.com/> THE GREEN ENGINEER, LLP

Sustainable Design Consulting - Energy Modeling - LEED Project Management 

50 Beharrell St

Concord, MA 01742

O: 978/610-2801

C: 720/840-7862

-----Original Message-----
From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Dane
Heimerman
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 12:24 PM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] Ground source heat pump/ cooling tower hybrid



Hi there,

We have a building that is conditioned with water source heat pumps. The
loop is maintained by several ground source wells, and also a closed loop
evaporative cooling tower and a hot water boiler. Does anyone know how to
correctly model this loop? Equest will let you put a boiler and a cooling
tower on a ground loop with the wells, but when you run the simulation it
gives an error that says a boiler cannot be on the loop with the ground
source heat exchanger.



Any advice is appreciated.



Thanks in advance,



--

Dane Heimerman

HVAC Engineer

Michael L. Norris&  Associates, Inc.

270 Walker Dr, Suite 201B

State College, PA 16801

p:814.867.3823begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              814.867.3823      end_of_the_skype_highlighting


f:814.867.4823

<mailto:daneh at mlnai.com> daneh at mlnai.com





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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:14:47 -0500
From: "Walson, Kristy" <kristy.walson at tlc-eng.com>
To: "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org"
    <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: [Equest-users] Unwanted Reheat hours in Baseline Model
Message-ID:
    <8573F40EA52893478A9DE0B49CF688BA011D204F6C81 at TLCEC1.tlc-eng.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi all,

I am modeling a building located in the Caribbean that does not have any heat in 
the design.  Per ASHRAE 90.1-2004, even though the building has no heat, I am 
supposed to model both the Baseline and the Proposed model with electric heat 
(with all of the same properties between the two models).  My Baseline system is 
a Packaged, Constant Volume, DX system.  I find that the Baseline building is 
using a ton of electric heat for reheat because the system is constant volume 
and it seems to be overcooling without the reheat.  I was able to correct this 
in my Proposed model by reducing the Minimum Flow Ratio, but since my Baseline 
building is constant volume I can't reduce the minimum flow ratio to fix the 
reheat problem.

Does anyone have any suggestions on reducing this reheating?  Because the 
building doesn't even have any heat, I artificially inflated the heat in the 
Proposed to make the same as the Baseline because I was getting an imaginary 
benefit otherwise.  Thanks for the help.

Kristy M. Walson, PE, LEED AP
Mechanical Engineer / Sustainable Design

TLC Engineering for Architecture
Your 2030 Challenge Partner

255 South Orange Avenue, Suite 1600
Orlando, FL 32801-3463

phone:

407-841-9050

fax:

407-425-7367

direct:

407-487-1118

website:

www.tlc-engineers.com<http://www.tlc-engineers.com>


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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 00:14:32 +0000
From: Ana N. <ananeddav at hotmail.com>
To: <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: [Equest-users] 2-pipe fan coils w/ electric shoulder
Message-ID: <SNT104-W31144D33223E99D1DFBAC4BD130 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


Dear e-quest users,

Has anyone had success modeling 2-pipe fan coils with electric shoulder?

The system operates using the following schedule: 
-         Fan coils provide cooling March through December
-         Fan coils provide heating December through March
-         Supplemental electric heaters will provide heating during October, 
November, April and May when required.

I was able to model 2-pipe fan coils by connecting 4 pipe fan coil to 2 pipe 
circulation loop and using schedules to define changeover criteria. This model 
gave me a high number of unmet load hours, much higher than I expected. As I 
could not figure out how to model supplemental electric heat I switched back to 
4-pipe fan coils and assigned availability schedules to heating and cooling. 
With this configuration, I tried to use electric baseboards and baseboard 
schedules based on outside temperature, but my unmet hours went up, offcourse 
this time in cooling. I tried changing capacities of baseboards and the 
baseboard reset schedule, all without any success. The only idea that  I could 
think off is to manually calculate heat load and electricity consumption for 
spring-fall months. This is a huge building with almost hundred of FCs, and I am 
still hoping there is some better solution.

Any thoughts?

All ideas are greatly appreciated.

Ana                           
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 09:13:43 +0800
From: Jenny Zhang <jenny.zhang at arup.com>
To: 'Bruce Easterbrook' <bruce5 at bellnet.ca>, 'zhiren zhou'
    <zhouzr at cabr-sh.com>
Cc: "'equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org'"
    <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Does PTAC consumes less energy than
    FCU+DOAs?
Message-ID:
    <D11FDA2B776F4E4591498B67D74117B60252AAD62F at E-AEXC02.global.arup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312"

And I saw the cooling electrical input power in the third screen is green 
(default value). May be you should change it according to ASHRAE 90.1 minimum 
equipment efficiency.


From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Bruce 
Easterbrook
Sent: 2010?12?13? 23:41
To: zhiren zhou
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Does PTAC consumes less energy than FCU+DOAs?

On your bottom screen adjust the throttling range, try 2 and 4.  .3 is too 
tight, the system will fight itself.
Bruce Easterbrook
Abode Engineering

On 13/12/2010 08:52 AM, zhiren zhou wrote:
Dear all
       Now I?m doing a LEED-CS energy simulation, part of the project is 
residential type and I use system 1(PTAC), and the proposed is FCU+DOAs. The 
results shows that the baseline is consume less energy.
So the question is: Does PTAC consumes less energy than FCU+DOAs?
Of course I?m not sure whether I has modeled the PTAC correctly. So I put some 
important images below. The cooling source is DX and the heat source is hot 
water loop. The supply fan is 0.0003Kw/CFM, and I keep the EIR default of 0.438 
which is a low efficiency.
Could anyone tell me the cause or the mistake I?ve made? Thanks a lot!

                             Yours  Zhiren Zhou

[cid:image001.png at 01CB9B6F.10DE4B70]

[cid:image002.png at 01CB9B6F.10DE4B70]


[cid:image003.png at 01CB9B6F.10DE4B70]

[cid:image004.png at 01CB9B6F.10DE4B70]

[cid:image005.png at 01CB9B6F.10DE4B70]






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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 00:18:33 -0800
From: Carol Gardner <cmg750 at gmail.com>
To: "Ana N." <ananeddav at hotmail.com>
Cc: eQUEST Users List <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] 2-pipe fan coils w/ electric shoulder
Message-ID:
    <AANLkTinA+4KL6i1GzSuDwvez+iRjFqATraromYq983q0 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Ana,

My take on your model, without seeing it, is that you should stick with the
2 pipe fan coil system since that is the system you have. Having hours
outside the throttling range is not a by product of your system selection
but rather indicates that you have some input which is not allowing adequate
heating, cooling and ventilation air to be supplied to your zones. To solve
this problem I suggest that you very methodically go through your HVAC input
screens and double check the validity of the inputs, especially defaults, to
be sure that they are what you want.

It is likely that by now, since you have been switching back and forth
between systems, trying to get them to work, you have made a number of
changes and maybe not in the best way. If you saved an earlier version of
your 2 pipe system with the crossover strategy you might want to go back to
it and start there.

Carol

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Ana N. <ananeddav at hotmail.com> wrote:

>  Dear e-quest users,
>
>
>
> Has anyone had success modeling 2-pipe fan coils with electric shoulder?
>
>
>
> The system operates using the following schedule:
>
> -         Fan coils provide cooling March through December
>
> -         Fan coils provide heating December through March
>
> -         Supplemental electric heaters will provide heating during
> October, November, April and May when required.
>
>
>
> I was able to model 2-pipe fan coils by connecting 4 pipe fan coil to 2
> pipe circulation loop and using schedules to define changeover criteria.
> This model gave me a high number of unmet load hours, much higher than I
> expected. As I could not figure out how to model supplemental electric heat
> I switched back to 4-pipe fan coils and assigned availability schedules to
> heating and cooling. With this configuration, I tried to use electric
> baseboards and baseboard schedules based on outside temperature, but my
> unmet hours went up, offcourse this time in cooling. I tried changing
> capacities of baseboards and the baseboard reset schedule, all without any
> success. The only idea that  I could think off is to manually calculate heat
> load and electricity consumption for spring-fall months. This is a huge
> building with almost hundred of FCs, and I am still hoping there is some
> better solution.
>
>
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
>
> All ideas are greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
>  Ana
>
> _______________________________________________
> Equest-users mailing list
> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to
> EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>
>


-- 
Carol Gardner PE
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 11:18:20 -0800
From: "Zabaneh, Christopher" <czabaneh at davislangdon.us>
To: eQUEST Users List <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: [Equest-users] Bad Building Components Exist error fix
Message-ID:
    <241FA032B4407C419FB3C613DB142B7F3384875235 at MAILBOX.sf.dladamson.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I've been handed a 'clean up' model that was started in eQUEST and then modified 
in DOE2 by the original modeler. Numerous changes are required for LEED (and I'd 
rather not do them in DOE2 if possible)

I re-imported the model in to eQUEST and I keep getting an error "48 Bad 
Building Components Exist" and then the model will not run.

I noticed a thread saying that these components should be highlighted in the 
*.BDL text file, however, I don't seem to be able to find them.

How (specifically) will I be able to fix these errors? Can it be done from 
eQUEST or must it be done from the text file? What should I be looking for?

[Lastly, has anyone had issues when re-importing a model back into eQUEST?]

Thanks in advance,


Christopher Zabaneh, LEED AP BD+C
D +1 310 460 3877
czabaneh at davislangdon.us<mailto:czabaneh at davislangdon.us>

Davis Langdon, An AECOM Company
301 Arizona Avenue, Suite 301, Santa Monica, CA 90401
T +1 310 393 9411  F +1 310 393-7493
www.davislangdon.com<http://www.davislangdon.com>
www.aecom.com<http://www.aecom.com>

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