[Equest-users] dwelling unit / residential LPDs

[Maria Karpman]

The NREL report only covers single family or multifamily three stories or
less (see p.12), so a case would have to be made to USGBC that the data is
applicable to larger buildings that are in the scope of 90.1. Low-rise
residential buildings are governed by different codes, for example the new
0.7 W/SF IECC 2009 requirement only applies to 3+ story multifamily.
Residential section of IECC 2009 says 404.1 Lighting equipment. A minimum of
50 percent of the lamps in permanently installed lighting fixtures shall be
high-efficacy lamps.; there is no associated LPD requirement.

 

Maria 

 

 

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Chris
Balbach
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 4:58 PM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] dwelling unit / residential LPDs

 

A great deal of research related work on this subject can be found beginning
on page 24 of this recent NREL publication:.

 

http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/building_america/ho
use_simulation_revised.pdf

 

Covers what I interpret are defendable 'baseline' assumptions for both
multifamily and single family (room by room!) scenarios.

 

Enjoy!

 

_Chris

 

Chris Balbach, PE, CEM, CMVP, BEMP

Vice President of Research and Development

Performance Systems Development of NY, LLC

124 Brindley Street, Suite 4, Ithaca, NY 14850

http://www.psdconsulting.com

ph: (607)-327-1647

 

 

 

 

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of David
Eldridge
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 4:04 PM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] dwelling unit / residential LPDs

 

The only gray area to me is when the design would only partially provide the
lighting - i.e. it isn't a fair comparison for the proposed design at 0.5
W/ft2 if there is some expectation of receptacle-based fixtures to also be
included as supplemental lighting sources.

 

If the intention is for the proposed design to provide all of the lighting,
then I believe it to be fair game.  Especially hotel rooms, where the
interior designer will have included receptacle-based fixtures if they are
intended, it should be relatively clear what is included in the initial fit
out.

 

With apartments or condos I think you are less likely to have the design
intended to cover 100% of the occupied lighting, but if that's the case for
your projects the standard seems to allow it.

 

Apartments are further complicated since the kitchen, bathroom, and corridor
lighting is often completely provided, where the bedroom and living areas
may not partially provided.  However, the 1.1 W/ft2 (or 0.7 W/ft2 for
multifamily) seems to be for a whole apartment including a weighting of all
the different spaces in a typical apartment.  Maybe the 0.7 W/ft2 is
intended to allow for supplemental sources in a living room although this
hasn't been my take on it.

 

David

 

 


 

David S. Eldridge, Jr., P.E., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP, HBDP

Grumman/Butkus Associates

 


 

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of James
Hansen
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 2:43 PM
To: Aleka Pappas; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] dwelling unit / residential LPDs

 

Is there a CIR or something that says that residential LPD is unregulated?

 

Table G3.1 is pretty specific about residential unit lighting for the
proposed model (see below):

 



 

As long as the lighting is shown on building plans and permanently wired,
you are allowed to use the actual lighting power.   I have done 10+
residential projects where we've listed 1.1 W / sq ft for the living /
bedroom areas for the baseline building, and used the actual density for the
proposed model, and been approved.  There certainly isn't anything wrong
with doing it the ECM route, but where, specifically, does it say you can't
take credit for any residential unit lighting efficiencies?  

 

GHT Limited
James Hansen, PE, LEED AP

Senior Associate

1010 N. Glebe Rd, Suite 200

Arlington, VA  22201-4749

703-338-5754 (Cell)

703-243-1200 (Office)

703-276-1376 (Fax)

 <http://www.ghtltd.com/> www.ghtltd.com

 

 

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Aleka
Pappas
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 3:25 PM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] dwelling unit / residential LPDs

 

That 1.1 W/SF from section 9 doesn't apply to apartment or condo dwelling
units.  Residential unit LPD is unregulated.  We calculate savings for
residential lighting as an exceptional calculation using a baseline LPD
sited from research (which is kind of all over the place), and calculate
savings for installed lighting systems that provide for full illuminance in
specific spaces in the residential units.  The lighting is scheduled on for
750 hours/ year (from an old LEED CIR).  These calcs have been approved in
the past for LEED EAc1 under NC 2.2 and 3.0.

Aleka Pappas

Building Energy Engineer

GROUP14 ENGINEERING, INC. 
Inspiring better buildings. 
1325 E. 16th Ave, Denver, CO 80218 
Direct: 720.221.1082/ Main: 303.861.2070/Fax: 303.830.2016
APappas at group14eng.com
www.group14eng.com

Group 14 is the Carbon Group on the periodic table. Group14 Engineering
offers building energy optimization, LEED coordination, commissioning,
energy audits, LEED EBOM, and greenhouse gas analysis to reduce building and
communities' carbon footprint. 


On 12/8/2010 7:25 AM, Bishop, Bill wrote: 

Joe,

 

The dwelling units exception in Appendix G applies to "spaces in which
lighting systems are connected via receptacles and are not shown or provided
for on building plans." You say you've worked hard to reduce lighting energy
use, so presumably, you've designed the lighting for the spaces and it
appears on the plans. Therefore, you are justified in using your actual
lighting design for the proposed building model, and the LPD value for the
baseline, which should be 1.1 W/ft2 for living quarters per Table 9.6.1.

 

Regards,

Bill

 

William Bishop, PE, BEMP, LEEDR AP | Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP

Mechanical Engineer

 

134 South Fitzhugh Street                 Rochester, NY 14608
T: (585) 325-6004 Ext. 114                F: (585) 325-6005

wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com           www.pathfinder-ea.com
<http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/> 

P   Sustainability - the forest AND the trees. P 

  _____  

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Nick Caton
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 7:16 PM
To: Joe Snider; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] dwelling unit / residential LPDs

 

Hey Joe,

 

If you're looking to start somewhere.  I know the NEC (NFPA 70) lays out a
clear method of estimating dwelling unit lighting loads within Article 220.
It starts off seeming high (3W/SF), but there are heavy demand factors that
vary with the total calc'd load following within the same article: i.e.
first 3,000 @ 100%... 3,000 to 120,000 @ 35% etc.

 

While I've yet to fall back on the NEC as an energy modeling resource, I'm
unaware of any better direct source for residential lighting loads. I
imagine if you dig hard enough, one of the ASHRAE handbooks probably has
something along these lines as well that might give you a different sum.

 

I think ASHRAE Fundamentals does have a clear thing or two to say regarding
what percentage of the lighting load should end up in a space vs. a plenum
when you are talking about different lamp sources (incandescent vs. CFL.) -
something to be aware of if you want to pursue this avenue.

 

~Nick

 

cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB

 

NICK CATON, E.I.T.

PROJECT ENGINEER

Smith & Boucher Engineers

25501 west valley parkway

olathe ks 66061

direct 913 344.0036

fax 913 345.0617

www.smithboucher.com 

 

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Joe Snider
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 5:24 PM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] dwelling unit / residential LPDs

 

I have reviewed the archives and found a few threads on this topic but
couldn't find either good resolution, or a clear enough string to reply to,
so I thought I would re-post:

 

ASHRAE 90.1 App G doesn't let you include dwelling units in typical LPD
calcs.  They say you need to plug in the same number for both proposed and
baseline.

 

But you can apparently pursue exceptional calcs to justify any cost savings
in LEED.  But you need to show some kind of analysis as to how you chose a
baseline, such as a study or something presumably that shows typical w /sf
for residential.

 

We have worked very hard to reduce energy use in lighting in a few high-rise
residential projects and would like to be able to receive credit for that on
our energy model.

 

Has anyone been through this with USGBC and / or know of a good resource for
a baseline w / sf for residential?

 

In advance, thank you very much.  Great forum.

 

Sincerely,

 

Joe Snider

 

---

Joe Snider, AIA, LEED AP

 

SEQUIL Systems, Inc.

high performance sustainable structures

 

1 SE 4th Ave, Suite 205

Delray Beach, FL 33483

t: 561.921.0900

f: 561.208.6090

 

www.SEQUIL.com

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/attachments/20101208/ca9bece6/attachment-0002.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/png
Size: 144811 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/attachments/20101208/ca9bece6/attachment-0002.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 2412 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/attachments/20101208/ca9bece6/attachment-0004.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1459 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/attachments/20101208/ca9bece6/attachment-0005.jpeg>