[Equest-users] Above Roof Canopy Modeling

[reniel barroso]

Thanks.
I appreciate each of your insights.

The project is in Middle East so everybody can have a clearer picture of the error in numbers.

I'll check Kim's point on low solar altitudes.

I just couldn't relate Nick's point on the numbers that I have.
Please take note that the more transmittance I introduced in the courtyard, the more space heating it requires on spaces facing the courtyard and vice versa.
Is it correct?
I couldn't relate it to cooling-heating fundamentals.
Nick, please confirm your point by clarifying these issues.

Thank you so much.


Reniel







________________________________
From: "Shinn, Kim" <kim.shinn at tlc-eng.com>
To: Nick Caton <ncaton at smithboucher.com>; reniel barroso <renielbarroso at yahoo.com>; Dakota Kelley <dakotak at teliospc.com>; "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org" <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 19:55:43
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Above Roof Canopy Modeling

 
Another possible issue on the cooling side:  In some climates,
and in some building configurations, we see very high cooling loads in the
fall, winter and spring (e.g, The Middle East).  Ambient temperatures moderate
somewhat from summer extremes, but the low solar altitudes are throwing
radiation load at the windows at a much more direct angle, frequently “under”
the lip of our overhangs and canopies.
 
Kim E Shinn, PE, LEED AP BD+C, CxA
Senior Sustainability Consultant
 
From:Nick Caton
[mailto:ncaton at smithboucher.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:29 AM
To: reniel barroso; Shinn, Kim; Dakota Kelley;
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Above Roof Canopy Modeling
 
Without more specifics, I think we can only give you some
general advice/suggestions…  I haven’t tried this, but if you’re trying to
observe results with/without the shade, maybe you should just delete the shade
instead of altering transmittance and see if anything changes?
 
Overhangs/shades/canopies and the like can both help and hurt
over the course of the year.  From what we’ve heard I don’t think you’re
doing anything wrong in application.  I might take these results as a sign
you need to carefully reconsider your canopy design with respect to how it is
blocking sunlight.
 
Rather than focusing on overall cooling/heating energy spent,
you might do well to identify which specific internal/external load components
are changing significantly.  If you have any daylighting controls
specifically, watch carefully what’s happening to your lighting energy spent.
 
The increase in heating energy is likely because you’ve
eliminated a significant amount of solar gains through fenestrations and opaque
walls by blocking the sun during heating months.  Remember that building
shades are shading more than windows!
 
In the heating months and from an energy-perspective, a perfect
window shade blocks only as much direct sunlight as is required to prevent
glare issues through windows.  Any other direct light is welcome as a free
heating source – both on windows and opaque walls.  
 
The lesser increase in cooling energy probably has a less direct
conglomeration of reasons…  That it’s relatively minor suggests it could
be a lot of things.  I would look at whether your simultaneous
cooling/heating hours are changing.  For review:  In cooling months,
a perfect shade blocks (reflects away) direct light incident on windows and opaque walls to minimize solar thermal loads, but still lets indirect light
inside windows for daylighting purposes without obstructing views to an unacceptable
level.  
 
Another potentially odd daylight/thermal behavior interaction
I’ve observed:  If you end up really cutting down your lighting energy
spent, you might observe a corresponding increase in heating energy spent, as
you’re effectively eliminating a heating source in the winter by not running
your lights at 100%.
 
~Nick
 
NICK CATON, E.I.T.
PROJECT ENGINEER
25501 west valley parkway
olathe ks 66061
direct 913 344.0036
fax 913 345.0617
Check out our new web-site @ www.smithboucher.com
 
From:reniel barroso
[mailto:renielbarroso at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:27 AM
To: Shinn, Kim; Nick Caton; Dakota Kelley;
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Above Roof Canopy Modeling
 
Hi!
 
Thanks
for your replies.
It
helps us a lot.
 
On
the model that we're working on,
We
already did what everyone suggested.
We
modeled the canopy as fixed shading.
 
To
double check if the model is running as what we're expecting based on cooling
load fundamentals,
We
modeled full opaque canopy (0 transmittance) and 1.0 transmittance
for comparison purposes only.
 
After
running the model, we had weird results:
 
0
transmittance
Chilled
Water - 104.05 MBTU
Space
Heating - 74.8 kwh (X000)
 
1.0 transmittance
Chilled
Water - 109.9 MBTU
Space
Heating - 96.2 kwh (X000)
 
Am
I modeling it wrong?
Am
I missing something?
Are
we having the same results especially with the heating consumption?
What
are the areas that I should check first before concluding?
Note
that we modeled the systems for both as AUTOSIZING.
 
Thanks
for your assistance.
 
 
Reniel

 
 

________________________________
 
From:"Shinn, Kim"
<kim.shinn at tlc-eng.com>
To: Nick Caton <ncaton at smithboucher.com>; Dakota Kelley
<dakotak at teliospc.com>; reniel barroso <renielbarroso at yahoo.com>;
"equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org"
<equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 21:44:23
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Above Roof Canopy Modeling
At the risk of piling on more information than you really
wanted:
 
App G allows you to take advantage of shading – so, remove
shading from your 90.1 baseline.
 
You can assign schedules, transparency and reflectance to
shades.  If you want to model the effect of deciduous trees planted near
the building, for instance, you can use a schedule to have greater transparency
in the winter (for passive solar heating) and less transparency in the summer
for shading.
 
Kim E Shinn, PE, LEED AP BD+C, CxA
Senior Sustainability Consultant
 
From:Nick Caton
[mailto:ncaton at smithboucher.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 11:29 AM
To: Dakota Kelley; Shinn, Kim; reniel barroso;
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Above Roof Canopy Modeling
 
Thanks Dakota!
 
This is good to know as I have a situation where it would
probably be less work to explore some specific overhang/fin options within my
complex eQuest model vs. trying to build a separate model through my more usual
daylight analysis workflows.
 
Bonus points for your response being 10x more clear than my
question =)!
 
~Nick
 
 
NICK CATON, E.I.T.
PROJECT ENGINEER
25501 west valley parkway
olathe ks 66061
direct 913 344.0036
fax 913 345.0617
Check out our new web-site @ www.smithboucher.com
 
From:Dakota Kelley
[mailto:dakotak at teliospc.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 11:16 AM
To: Nick Caton; Shinn, Kim; reniel barroso;
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Above Roof Canopy Modeling
 
Window shades only shade their parent window, not the
walls.  Building shades will shade everything in their shadow, and they
rotate with the building if the azimuth is changed.  Fixed shades also
shade everything in their shadow, but they do not rotate with the building.
 
                                
                       
DAKOTA KELLEY                                                              
                                Project Designer
 
                               
Office:      214-744-6199
                               
Cell:         214-280-3825
                               
Fax:         214-744-0770 
                
http://www.teliospc.com 
        3535 Travis St. Suite 115 
dakotak at teliospc.com            
Dallas, TX 75204 
 
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From:Nick Caton
[mailto:ncaton at smithboucher.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 11:10 AM
To: Shinn, Kim; reniel barroso; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Above Roof Canopy Modeling
 
Here is another illustration shading a courtyard of sorts. 
You’re looking at the dark grey rectangle in both examples.
 
I have a followup actually for others familiar with creating
building shades – are they any different in behavior from a window shade, or
are they the same thing simply defined in different ways?  More
specifically, do window shades shade buildings and can I define building shades
as a means of modeling multiple vertical fins/horizontal light shades per
window?  
 
 
~Nick
 
NICK CATON, E.I.T.
PROJECT ENGINEER
25501 west valley parkway
olathe ks 66061
direct 913 344.0036
fax 913 345.0617
Check out our new web-site @ www.smithboucher.com
 
From:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Shinn,
Kim
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:03 AM
To: reniel barroso; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Above Roof Canopy Modeling
 
Reniel:
 
What you need is an exterior shade.
 
In detailed edit mode, go to Building Shell and select Fixed
Shades (or a Building Shade, depending on whether you want the shade to be attached
to the building – as it rotates, for instance).  A fixed shade remains
fixed in space.  This is a good way to model adjacent buildings.
 
 
Right click on Fixed Shade and go through the dialog boxes.
 
Kim E Shinn, PE, LEED AP BD+C, CxA
Senior Sustainability Consultant
 
From:reniel barroso
[mailto:renielbarroso at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 8:22 AM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] Above Roof Canopy Modeling
 
Hi
to All,
 
We
are modeling 3 buildings interconnected with each other.
A
large canopy is covering the roof of the buildings and partially
shading the courtyard within these buildings.
 
Can
we model this canopy in eQuest? How?
Can
we model its effect on the cooling load of spaces facing the courtyard?
We
are expecting that solar heat gain will be lower on fenestrations of the
rooms/spaces facing courtyard due to shading compared to perimeter spaces
facing outside the development.
 
Thanks
in advance.
 
 
Reniel
 
 
 
 

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