[Equest-users] Understanding Floors

Peter Hillermann e190984026 at exchange.1and1.com
Mon Jun 21 14:17:41 PDT 2010
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I did not say the wizard was useless. I just don't want to confuse anyone.
Attached is my model to give a better understanding of where I'm coming
from. I have nothing against the wizard but I really don't want to confuse
any other users that are using the wizards. My questions are based on
terminology coming directly from the component tree in detail mode. You will
notice under building shell a child component for a floor is a space.

 

Please do not misconstrue any of my comments as fact or that I know what I'm
doing. I like many others am trying to learn the software on this forum.
Again I mean no disrespect with any comments I make, they are just opinions
and I'll try keep them to a minimum.

 

From: Pasha Korber-Gonzalez [mailto:pasha.pkconsulting at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 4:57 PM
To: Peter Hillermann
Cc: Demba Ndiaye; Sami, Vikram; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors

 

So Peter, when you say Floor, you are really referring to "Shell", which is
what the right terminology is in terms of eQuest.  Note:  you can define
multiple floors within a shell.

 

The wizard is not a completely useless tool, and when you set up your
buildings (i.e. building footprint & zoning) at the very least can be done
super easy in the wizard.  Most of your detail work might need to be done in
the detailed edit mode, but don't underestimate the benefits of the wizard
inputs too.  Efficiency is key for both the building design and the
simulator(s).

 

pkg

On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Peter Hillermann
<e190984026 at exchange.1and1.com> wrote:

Sorry wrong terminology. By space I'm going back to what I said "Floor."
When you open eQuest property tab for a designed floor it actually says
floor properties. These define the floor to ceiling and roof deck heights.
You can place multiple spaces in it and zones. All this applies to detail
mode and not the wizards. All my models are created in detail mode I do not
use the wizard for anything. So I apologize for any confusion.

 

From: Demba Ndiaye [mailto:Demba.Ndiaye at setty.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 4:23 PM
To: Peter Hillermann; 'Pasha Korber-Gonzalez'; 'Sami, Vikram' 


Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors

 

Peter, 

 

What do you mean by "I can put more than 1 zone into a space"?

 

Demba.

 

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Hillermann
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 3:13 PM
To: 'Pasha Korber-Gonzalez'; 'Sami, Vikram'
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors

 

I can put more than 1 zone into a space. When you go to the HVAC tab it will
show your building together within that space. The problem I had was
overlapping zones, one stacked on top of the other with the same ceiling
height so I broke apart my office into 2 different floors as you can see by
the images. That's where my question came from.

 

Thanks,

 

PETER HILLERMANN

 

peterh at westallarchitects.com

 

westall

architects

3404 pierce drive

chamblee, georgia 30341

 

o 770.458.4113

f  770.458.5352

c 678.898.2936

 

westallarchitects.com <http://westallarchitects.com/> 

e-signatureUSGBC-Logo

 

 

 

From: Pasha Korber-Gonzalez [mailto:pasha.pkconsulting at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 2:35 PM
To: Sami, Vikram
Cc: Nick Caton; Peter Hillermann; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors

 

I'm with Vik- I thought it was only one space to one zone, but if someone
has a new way of things, please share...

 

pkg

On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Sami, Vikram <Vikram.Sami at perkinswill.com>
wrote:

Nick,

How do you group multiple spaces in one zone? I always thought you could do
only one space per zone. 

 



 

Vikram Sami, LEED AP

Sustainable Design Analyst

1382 Peachtree St. NE, Atlanta, GA 30309

t: 404-443-7462    f: 404.892.5823       e: vikram.sami at perkinswill.com
<http://www.perkinswill.com/> www.perkinswill.com

Perkins+Will.  Ideas + buildings that honor the broader goals of society

 

 

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Nick Caton
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 2:00 PM 


To: Peter Hillermann; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors 

 

Hey Peter,

 

If by "stack" you mean place one space geometrically over another, the
answer is yes.  If you mean to ask whether zones can group spaces in
different elevations, the answer is also yes.  

 

However, I would like to hammer out your wording again to be sure we're on
the same page!  I think you meant to ask "Can you stack a space in a shell?"
Spaces are normally "inside" shells in a geometrical sense, as they are
generally within the shell footprint/boundaries.

 

Zones, in contrast, have nothing to do with geometries - they are simply
groupings of spaces with some extra HVAC/airflow properties tacked on.
Those spaces could be all over the place - at different elevations, within
different shells. pretty much any combination from my experience.

 

Best of luck!  If you are getting tripped up, remember a picture is worth a
thousand questions (?).


~Nick

 

PS to all:  The SD/DD Wizards are, in my mind, kinda misleading with regard
to helping new users understand the distinction between "space" & "zone."
Some work in detailed mode will eventually lead you to understand, but the
Wizard screens inconsistently interchange the terms and may cause others
confusion in the long run. See my description below for a simple breakdown
if you are cutting your teeth on eQuest ;).

 

cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB

 

NICK CATON, E.I.T.

PROJECT ENGINEER

25501 west valley parkway

olathe ks 66061

direct 913 344.0036

fax 913 345.0617

Check out our new web-site @  <http://www.smithboucher.com/>
www.smithboucher.com 

 

From: Peter Hillermann [mailto:peterh at westallarchitects.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 12:40 PM
To: Nick Caton; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors

 

Nick,

 

Thanks again. Can you stack a space in a zone?

 

Thanks,

 

PETER HILLERMANN

 

peterh at westallarchitects.com

 

westall

architects

3404 pierce drive

chamblee, georgia 30341

 

o 770.458.4113

f  770.458.5352

c 678.898.2936

 

westallarchitects.com <http://westallarchitects.com/> 

 

From: Nick Caton [mailto:ncaton at smithboucher.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 12:33 PM
To: Peter Hillermann; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors

 

Peter, I think you might be leading yourself into some unnecessary confusion
with your word choices.

 

eQuest has 3 distinct entities:

-          Shells are simply groups of spaces

-          Spaces are geometrical volumes, which may or may not have floors,
walls, ceilings, windows, etc. tied to them.  Internal loads / daylighting /
occupancies are attributed to spaces.  

-          Zones are simple entities that include one or more spaces, with
additional HVAC attributes like thermostat and airflow specifics. 

 

You're using "floors" to interchangeable discuss all the above, it seems.
For clarity when discussing eQuest, "floors" are merely the constructions we
walk on, normally one attribute of a "space."

 

All that said, it's entirely possible to model a "box within a box," as
you're describing.  You are limited in the wizards (by their nature) with
regard to defining zones/footprints. the best approach depends on the nature
of the space footprints you want to model.  If it's very simply two stacked
cubes enclosed within a larger cube, I'd personally model one shell, with
one space carved out of the middle.  Then I'd use the detailed mode to
shrink that space volume and partition/ceiling dimensions to match the first
floor office, then copy the entire space and its componenents for the second
floor.  I'd adjust the largest cube's volume (it's a space property) to
correct the conditioned volume, and be sure all partitions are correctly
associating the three spaces together.  With all spaces sorted out, ensure
your three spaces are correctly grouped with regard to "zones," for
association with your HVAC system(s).

 

Clear as mud =)?

 

~Nick

 

cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB

 

NICK CATON, E.I.T.

PROJECT ENGINEER

25501 west valley parkway

olathe ks 66061

direct 913 344.0036

fax 913 345.0617

Check out our new web-site @  <http://www.smithboucher.com/>
www.smithboucher.com 

 

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Hillermann
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 10:56 AM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors

 

To All,

 

I just want to make sure I understand the properties behind floors. If you
have a square building volume with a smaller square inside it that has 2
levels. EG:- an atrium as main space with 2 levels that are offices. There
will be a total of 3 floors in your model. Atrium floor, first floor office
and second floor office. Each of these will have a designated floor to floor
height. You cannot put one zone inside another on the same floor.

 

Is this correct?

 

Thanks, 

 

PETER HILLERMANN

 

peterh at westallarchitects.com

 

westall

architects

3404 pierce drive

chamblee, georgia 30341

 

o 770.458.4113

f  770.458.5352

c 678.898.2936

 

westallarchitects.com <http://westallarchitects.com/> 

e-signatureUSGBC-Logo

 

 

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