[Equest-users] Complex chiller/heat recovery/heat pump to modelquestion

[Carol Gardner]

I think Pasha rocks, too.

Carol

On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Paul Brooks <equestpaul at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I would also like to publically comment Pasha on her skills.  We had a
> wonderful conversation, she got me over the roadblocks I had.  I am sure I
> will be posting again soon on the next set of roadblocks, but Pasha got me
> rolling again.
>
> Agreed, we are a set of professionals that need to work together to ensure
> we all can provide a quality service to our clients.  Doing so will help us
> all do a better job, and advance our service offerings.
>
> Pasha, thank you again.
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Pasha Korber-Gonzalez <pasha.pkconsulting at gmail.com>
> *To:* "Eurek, John S NWO" <John.S.Eurek at usace.army.mil>
> *Cc:* Paul Brooks <equestpaul at yahoo.com>; Carol Gardner <cmg750 at gmail.com>;
> Matthew Dubrovich <mdubrovich at emcengineers.com>;
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Sent:* Fri, May 7, 2010 2:17:52 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Complex chiller/heat recovery/heat pump to
> modelquestion
>
> :)  Thanks John--I'll send your tip in the mail.
>
> Actually its nice to see that there are very few degrees of separation
> between all of us.  Carol has helped me, I've shown her a few tricks, and
> the circles just keep going between all of us.  It is our duty as
> professionals to share our experiences and learn from each other only to
> better the industry and educate our clients to the true value (and skills)
> that are needed to provide quality simulation services.
>
> We are all just trying to save our planet and improve the quality of life
> on it.
>
> Pasha  :)
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Eurek, John S NWO <
> John.S.Eurek at usace.army.mil> wrote:
>
>>
>> I have talked to and received help from Pasha Korber-Gonzalez.  I really
>> found her helpful (and a pleasure to talk with)
>>
>> (A plug for her was the least I could do)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
>> [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Paul
>> Brooks
>>  Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 11:44 AM
>> To: Carol Gardner; Matthew Dubrovich
>> Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Complex chiller/heat recovery/heat pump to
>> modelquestion
>>
>> Carol:
>>
>> I agree, and I am trying to digest all the info I am getting, and also
>> plan
>> on taking Pasha up on the offer of a phone call.  I also sent an email to
>> Marlin, (trainer I had for eQuest).
>>
>> The building is still on the drawing obpards, and is to be built in a
>> duty-free office park in Montevideo, Uruguay.  I am in Richmond, VA.
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: Carol Gardner <cmg750 at gmail.com>
>> To: Matthew Dubrovich <mdubrovich at emcengineers.com>
>> Cc: Paul Brooks <equestpaul at yahoo.com>; "
>> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org"
>> <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
>> Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 12:18:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Complex chiller/heat recovery/heat pump to
>> model
>> question
>>
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> I think Matt is on to something. It does have options for both and you can
>> use Equip Control and maybe Load Management commands. This is heady stuff
>> for
>> a newbie, however, so I would suggest you hire someone to do a peer review
>> with you or to work with you.
>>
>> So, this is an existing building, right? You will also need to bill match,
>> etc. Where do you actually sit? In Uraguay?
>>
>> Carol
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 8:57 AM, Matthew Dubrovich
>> <mdubrovich at emcengineers.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>        Hi Paul,
>>
>>
>>
>>        Though I haven't had the opportunity to use either yet, eQuest has
>> options for both heat recovery chillers and heat pump chillers, correct?
>>  You
>> can tie the heat recovery chiller into your hot water loop and it should
>> show
>> both a heating savings and condenser fan savings (eliminating those hand
>> calcs hopefully).  The heat pump chillers can be sequenced through
>> Equipment
>> Controls and Load Management to only come on as necessary, after the 165
>> ton
>> chiller is maxed out.  Coupling the heat pumps with your hot water system
>> may
>> be more of a challenge.  Good luck.
>>
>>
>>
>>        Matt
>>
>>
>>
>>        From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
>> [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Paul
>> Brooks
>>        Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 9:26 AM
>>        To: Carol Gardner
>>
>>        Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>>
>>        Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Complex chiller/heat recovery/heat pump
>> to model question
>>
>>
>>
>>        Yes, I did.
>>
>>
>>
>>        Yes, it is an air-cooled Trane Chiller that has total energy
>> recovery.  It is a non-US product, made by Trane in Europe.
>>
>>
>>
>>        The concept is that the chiller provids chilled water, and the
>> energy
>> recovery side provides hot water for reheat at VAV boxes when needed.
>>
>>
>>
>>        In addition, there are two heat pumps (reversible chillers as the
>> liturature says)that will pprovide additional capacity to etther the
>> chilled
>> water loop or the hot water loop as needed.
>>
>>
>>
>>        This is for a 110,000 sf high end office building in Uruguay.
>> Uruguay is ASHRAE climate zone 3, similar to the US southeast, primarily
>> Georga/northern Florida.
>>
>>
>>
>>        Links to product information:
>>
>>
>>
>>        Chiller with energy recovery:
>>
>> http://doc.trane-eur.com/marketing/cdtrane.nsf/PdfByName/RLC-PRC026-E4_1205.pdf/$file/RLC-PRC026-E4_1205.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>>        Heat pumps:
>>
>> http://doc.trane-eur.com/Marketing/CdTrane.nsf/PdfByName/CG-PRC015-E4_0708.pdf/$file/CG-PRC015-E4_0708.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>        I am thinking i will need to do a lot of hand calcs for energy use
>> of
>> the chiller and how much "free" heating water I will get.  the hard part
>> is
>> going to be how to account for saving by not running condenser fans.  Yes,
>> it
>> will be a challenge to get it through GBCI review, but if the logic is
>> sound,
>> it will not be that hard.
>>
>>
>>
>>        Any suggestions on how to wet up a model in eQuest to minimize
>> amount
>> of hand calculations?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>>        From: Carol Gardner <cmg750 at gmail.com>
>>        To: Paul Brooks <equestpaul at yahoo.com>
>>        Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>>        Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 1:54:56 AM
>>        Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Complex chiller/heat recovery/heat pump
>> to model question
>>
>>        It looks like you stunned everyone into silence, Paul.
>>
>>        So you have 1) an air cooled chiller, 2) heat recovery sending HW
>> to
>> only your reheat coils, 3) 2 air cooled heat pumps that can also provide
>> cool
>> or hot water to circulation loops, 4)  french hens, and a partridge in a
>> pear
>> treee...OOPS, its late!
>>
>>        This looks like entropy to me. Try once more to share all of this.
>> I
>> would suggest an itemized list that identifies the equipment type, it's
>> specific use, it's model no. etc. and any comments. Maybe an excel
>> spreadsheet would work best.
>>
>>        Another issue: this project will be neigh on impossible for a LEED
>> reviewer to review, too. That is neither good or bad, it just is.
>>
>>        I will help you as I can, when I can, but I must work for food too.
>> Nobody pays me, yet, to help anyone.
>>
>>        Keep the faith,
>>        Carol
>>
>>        On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Paul Brooks <equestpaul at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>        I am modeling a building in Uruguay that has a Trane 165 ton Air
>> cooled chiller, (RTAD 165 SE, not available in US.)  In addition to
>> air-cooling, the chiller has a heat exchanger to recover heat for whatever
>> use you want.   Obviously the heat recovery means that in the right
>> condisitons the condenser fans will not run as much.
>>
>>
>>
>>        For this application, the heat is to be recovered to provide
>> heating
>> hot water VAV box re-heat coils.  In addition to this, there are two air
>> cooled heat pumps (CXAN 214, not available in US) that are available to
>> augment the chiller or the hot wateer loop.
>>
>>
>>
>>        So, my dilemma, is how to model this in eQuest. I am still more or
>> less a novice user.  I am in the detail mode, and see that I can do some
>> things with condenser water, but then how do I model the condenser fans?
>>  How
>> do I tie in the heat pump loops?
>>
>>
>>
>>        Lastly, this is a LEED model.  So, any thoughts on how to get data
>> and then do hand calcs to prove savings are also welcome.
>>
>>
>>
>>        Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>        If interestede in seeing info on the equipment, go to
>> Trane-eur.com <http://trane-eur.com/>
>> <http://trane-eur.com/> .  information is available in english for these
>>  models. Your local trane rep will probably not be able to help.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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