[Equest-users] equest and energy plus outputs

Paul Diglio paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net
Thu Apr 28 15:24:09 PDT 2011
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Mizra:

Thank you for the time it took you to send the results of your study to the 
forum.  Some of the top simulation firms in my area use Energy Plus and I was 
confused when other people claimed a higher discrepancy rate than you modeled.

Paul Diglio




________________________________
From: Mirza Sajjal <Mirza.Sajjal at BuroHappold.com>
To: Pasha Korber-Gonzalez <pasha.pkconsulting at gmail.com>; deepika khowal 
<deepika.khowal at gmail.com>
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org; energyplus_support 
<EnergyPlus_Support at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, April 28, 2011 5:55:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] equest and energy plus outputs

 
This was a little study I did out of curiosity last year, and the results 
between eQUEST (v3.63) and EnergyPlus (v4.0) matched quite well (~1.4% 
difference). All the schedules, zone areas, surface areas were exactly the same 
(I checked), but I also chose a simple system; PTAC units for the comparison. I 
believe when I was doing this I had checked the performance curves that were 
being used in EnergyPlus and they matched the eQUEST curves. 

 
I assume the results will begin to differ when the systems become more 
complicated, but even then I believe if both models are calibrated to match as 
much as possible the results shouldn’t vary significantly (assuming all systems 
are native to the programs and we’re not creating work-arounds i.e. DOAS in 
eQUEST using dummy zones or the like).
 
(FYI, the geometry was ported over to EnergyPlus through a tool I wrote using 
Excel and VBA, but it’s a messy process)
 
Following are some of the results and graphical outputs:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
____________________
Mirza Sajjal
Engineer
 
Buro Happold
100 Broadway
New York, NY 10005
Tel: +1 212 334 2025
Direct: +1 212 616 0380
 
From:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Pasha 
Korber-Gonzalez
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 4:46 PM
To: deepika khowal
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org; energyplus_support
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] equest and energy plus outputs
 
As I understand it--Energy+ is free-ware in it's raw form.    I guess I was 
wrong to make an assumption that Deepika is using it without an interface.    If 
this is not the case it might explain such a variance in results.     When I 
model in DOE-2 raw form---it is so much harder for me to manage my data and 
inputs in my head and such----I was not born to be a programmer, and it gives me 
nightmares from struggling to pass FORTRAN so many years ago...ugh.
 
Therefore, I haven't looked at E+ myself for a very long time and purchasing or 
putting out the cost for the user-interface programs is not as desireable as 
using the eQuest free-ware.  or the future CANQuest free-ware (future SI 
version).
 
BUT-- I know that E+ is supposed to have some great capabilities in which we are 
limited with DOE-2 (to an extent.)    Has anyone else had the time and desire to 
compare these program engines more closely recently?   Also--why is it so 
difficult to "match" systems in eQuest and E+....forgive my blase'-ness, but 
isn't a pkgd system a pkgd system...a pkgd system???  :)
Pasha 

 
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:39 AM, deepika khowal <deepika.khowal at gmail.com> 
wrote:
So based on my analysis, there is a difference of about 10% in results of equest 
and E+. I would believe that because there are certain parameters which are very 
difficult to match. 

this seems reasonable to me. 
 
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 9:09 AM, John Aulbach <jra_sac at yahoo.com> wrote:
I am sure EnergyPlus is a fine and well thought out program (consider the 
sources and fine people involved).  However, since I am in production mode (and 
don't have time to create a model in two different programs-who pays for THAT), 
I chose to migrate to eQuest after DOE-2.1 A, B, C, D, and E. There are plenty 
of resources to ask questions of, the program started out in Windows (didn't 
need "add ons"), and gives me a 3-D rendering on the building immediately.
 
I dealt with 20 years of "raw" DOE-2, where I didn't know what my building 
really looked like (until Joe Huang came along with BDL Draw..). So I would need 
at age (you guess..) to not relearn an entirely new program and stick with what 
I had learned over the past 25+ years.
 
John R. Aulbach, PE, CEM
Senior Energy Engineer

________________________________
 
PartnerEnergy
1990 E. Grand Avenue, El Segundo, CA 90245
W: 888-826-1216, X254| D: 310-765-7295 | F: 310-817-2745
www.ptrenergy.com| jaulbach at ptrenergy.com
 

 
 

________________________________
 
From:deepika khowal <deepika.khowal at gmail.com>
To: Paul Diglio <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org; energyplus_support 
<EnergyPlus_Support at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, April 28, 2011 8:56:34 AM 

Subject: Re: [Equest-users] equest and energy plus outputs

As Joe and others mentioned, its really difficult to create all parameters same 
in both softwares. 

I am still working on it .
For ex, which system should I use in equest as equivalent to unitary system in 
E+?
I understand its difficult to match every input and hence, getting same results 
is very tricky.
Thanks all for their inputs
 
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Paul Diglio <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I thought E+ is a free program?  I would be interested to hear from anyone who 
has used Google SketchUp and the Open Studio Plug-in to generate a 3D view in 
E+.

I would like to hear more about the discrepancies between eQuest and E+ from 
those who use both programs.

Paul Diglio
 
 

________________________________
 
From:Pasha Korber-Gonzalez <pasha.pkconsulting at gmail.com>
To: deepika khowal <deepika.khowal at gmail.com>
Cc: energyplus_support <EnergyPlus_Support at yahoogroups.com>; 
equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Sent: Thu, April 28, 2011 1:27:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] equest and energy plus outputs
 
Hmmm- an energy plus model showed 50% less energy use (EUI) than eQuest?   Did 
you use the same weather files?  (i.e. convert the EPW you used in E+ to .bin 
and use the same weather file in eQuest?)
 
If this is truly the case, this is unsettling as a simulator.   Wouldn't it be 
safer for our clients to error on the conservative side and give the eQuest 
results instead of the E+ results?
 
Also--if this is the case, then what is the market advantage to spending 
thousands of dollars on E+ software rather than use the FREE-ware eQuest 
program??
 
I'd appreciate any commentary to help me "see the light" of this topic.  And if 
Deepika is willing to share a visual of his energy results output, I'm super 
curious to see what it is showing...
 
Good question/good info...thanks,
Pasha
 
Korber Energy Consultants


 
On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 7:11 PM, deepika khowal <deepika.khowal at gmail.com> 
wrote:
Thanks Joe 
Even I realized the same thing. the total energy use in Energy plus was almost 
50% less than equest.
If this is the case, who would you know that you model is working fine? 
 
On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Joe Huang <yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com> 
wrote:
I was involved in a two year project 2005-2007 to convert the Calif. Energy 
Commission's Title-24 certification suite of building tests from DOE-2.1E to 
EnergyPlus.  There are some areas where it's difficult to get comparable inputs 
due to differences or limitations in the models. The differences between the two 
programs varied a lot depending on the building, weather, and HVAC system. For 
the CEC certification suite of 160 runs, cooling results were more consistent, 
within 10% in most cases, with EnergyPlus almost always on the high side; for 
heating, the differences were much greater, sometimes with EnergyPlus being 
40-60% lower than DOE-2.1E.  I have a 120-page report on this comparison, but 
haven't bothered to put it on the Web.

Joe

Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
Moraga CA 94556
yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
www.whiteboxtechnologies.com
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"



deepika khowal wrote:
HI All
I am trying to create same model in equest and energy plus to see whether i see 
same results and just to validate my simulation files.
has anyone done this before?
I would like to know what is the % difference in both software outputs?
Thanks
Deepika
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