[Equest-users] Ceramic Insulating Paint Additives

[Sami, Vikram]

Another way to reduce heat gain is to build a vented rainscreen type wall assembly and use stack venting to remove additional heat from solar gain. The stack venting will not get you below outdoor air temperatures though - so you will still have to deal with basic delta Ts. However - if it's a tropical climate you might not have a huge delta T. 


Vikram Sami, LEED AP BD+C
Sustainable Design Analyst
1315 Peachtree St. NE, Atlanta, GA 30309
t: 404-443-7462    f: 404.892.5823       e: vikram.sami at perkinswill.com   www.perkinswill.com
Perkins+Will.  Ideas + buildings that honor the broader goals of society


-----Original Message-----
From: Roselin Osser [mailto:Rosie at buildingscience.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 9:31 AM
To: steinvor at msu.edu
Cc: 'Bishop, Bill'; Sami, Vikram; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Ceramic Insulating Paint Additives

Hi Federico,

If the project is going for LEED you're going to want to try to exceed the
assembly R-values specified in the 90.1 baseline for your climate zone.
The example assembly calculation in my ASHRAE Fundamentals for filled
concrete block shows a value of approximately R-3.   Assuming you are
cooling the building, the Design model will use a lot more cooling energy if
you have almost no insulation compared to the Baseline.  Pashalu's
suggestion of shading to mitigate direct solar gains is a good idea but it
won't stop heat transfer from high delta T's between the indoors and
outdoors. 

Rosie


-----Original Message-----
From: steinvor at msu.edu [mailto:steinvor at msu.edu] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 8:34 PM
To: Roselin Osser
Cc: 'Bishop, Bill'; 'Sami, Vikram'; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Ceramic Insulating Paint Additives

Thanks all! Background on the project: Non profit police station in a low
budget  neighborhood in a tropical and warm climate. Walls are specified as
hollow concrete block only, and compared to a R-13 wall, heat transfer is
somewhat higher. I was trying to seek cheap alternatives for this, since
there is no budget to add additional insulation layers. I'm guessing filled
block would be a better option then.

Thanks,

Federico

Quoting Roselin Osser <Rosie at buildingscience.com>:

> Federico,
>
> I thought I should share this article about ceramic "insulating" 
> paints from GreenBuildingAdvisor.com.  The author had done significant 
> research pointing to his conclusion that insulating paints are a scam.  
> Apparently they do not qualify as low-e coatings either.  It's worth 
> reading the comments at the end as well, where various people likely 
> to be associated with the product attempt to argue with Holladay's 
> points but provide no scientific evidence of their claims.
>
> http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/insulating-pain
> t-merc
> hants-dupe-gullible-homeowners
>
> And this one:
>
> http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/insulating-pain
> t-sale
> sman-tripped-his-own-product
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Rosie
>
> Roselin Osser, BEMP, LEED AP
> Building Science Corporation
> 30 Forest Street
> Somerville, MA  02143
> 978-589-5100 x 5284
> fax:  978-589-5103
>
> Building Science Corporation
> Somerville MA  |  Waterloo ON
> www.buildingscience.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
> [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of 
> Bishop, Bill
> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 9:16 AM
> To: Sami, Vikram; steinvor at msu.edu; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Ceramic Insulating Paint Additives
>
> Federico,
>
> I have no experience using ceramic paint additives. This document 
> provides some engineering background, and also concludes that, "the 
> benefit of this product over time on exterior walls... very likely may be
small.":
>
> http://www.energy.wsu.edu/documents/AHT_Insuladd%5B1%5D.pdf%20Ceramic-
> ba
> sed%20paint%20additive.pdf
>
> You can, however, try modeling this in eQUEST. Using the values 
> discussed in the link, adjust both the absorptance and emissivity of the
walls.
> ABSORPTANCE - CONSTRUCTION is a property of the exterior wall
construction.
> OUTSIDE-EMISS - EXTERIOR WALL is under the Daylighting - Shading - 
> Other tab of each wall surface.
>
> You will probably find that the energy impact is minimal, and 
> therefore not cost-justified. Appendix G only allows for different 
> absorptance
> (1-reflectance) for white/cool roofs, and does not address emissivity.
> Therefore, I think you would have to submit a CIR with good supporting 
> documentation to justify using different absorptance and emissivity 
> values for the Proposed and Baseline exterior walls.
>
> Regards,
> Bill
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
> [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Sami, 
> Vikram
> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 9:56 PM
> To: steinvor at msu.edu; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Ceramic Insulating Paint Additives
>
> I'm pretty sure the ceramic additives do not really affect R-value. 
> They affect the emittance of the paint surface (low-e paints use 
> this). As far as I know you cannot account for surface emittance in
eQUEST.
>
> I'm not saying that it doesn't work or it doesn't have benefits - 
> however you need to be careful when you mix thermal metaphors. It may 
> be ok to assume an added R-value for this paint, but I doubt it. Its 
> probablye more effective in hot climates than in cool climates - but 
> additional R-value will have more effect in cold climates than in 
> hotter ones. (this is a guess
> - I haven't done any simulations to support this).
>
> Other simulation programs like E+ or IESVE might be able to simulate 
> emittance better, but I can't speak to that.
>
> Good luck.
>
> -Vikram
>
> ________________________________________
> From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
> [equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of 
> steinvor at msu.edu [steinvor at msu.edu]
> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 7:58 PM
> To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> Subject: [Equest-users] Ceramic Insulating Paint Additives
>
> Hello:
>
> Has anyone tried a simulation with insulating ceramic paint additive?
> How does USGBC think about this for LEED? How is the R value defined?
> I appreciate any comment or suggestion about this.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Federico
>
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Federico Steinvorth
Master's Student, Construction Management School of Planning, Design, and
Construction Michigan State University