[Equest-users] evaporative coolers in equest

deepika khowal deepika.khowal at gmail.com
Wed Aug 17 10:00:03 PDT 2011


Thanks Patrick
I read the following link which talks abt sizing evaporative coolers
http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/home/heating_cooling/evaporative.html

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Nick Caton <ncaton at smithboucher.com> wrote:

> Patrick, thanks for the heads up!****
>
> ** **
>
> My experience applying evap. coolers has been on a limited basis explicitly
> for space comfort, operated staged & cycled off via thermostat, so my
> brainstorming for Deepika was tailored to my past experience.  In those
> cases (auto garages), a mechanical ventilation system was provided as an
> entirely separate system, so the 62.1/IMC requirements for ventilation
> during occupancy were addressed elsewhere.****
>
> ** **
>
> If one is in fact using a swamp cooler functionally to supply required
> ventilation air, then I would agree it makes complete sense to operate
> continuously during occupied hours.  ****
>
> ** **
>
> I recall evap. coolers being a breath of fresh air (har har) to design
> around as they do make you rethink how you use your psych charts =).  I’ll
> defer any specific swamp cooler application queries to the Arizona engineer
> below me though – we don’t use them quite so often locally, outside of the
> desert ;).****
>
> ** **
>
> ~Nick****
>
> ** **
>
> [image: cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB]**
>
> * *
>
> *NICK CATON, P.E.***
>
> SENIOR ENGINEER****
>
> ** **
>
> Smith & Boucher Engineers****
>
> 25501 west valley parkway, suite 200****
>
> olathe, ks 66061****
>
> direct 913.344.0036****
>
> fax 913.345.0617****
>
> www.smithboucher.com* *****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Patrick J. O'Leary, Jr. [mailto:poleary1969 at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 16, 2011 5:48 PM
> *To:* Nick Caton
> *Cc:* deepika khowal; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] evaporative coolers in equest****
>
> ** **
>
> i would agree with nick on this except for part #3.  if you're using ashrae
> 62, or the 2000/2003/2006 imc (at least the way it is enforced in southern
> arizona), the evaporative cooler fan is required to run while the building
> is occupied so despite glazing upgrades you shouldn't be seeing any savings
> from the hvac system during occupied hours.  you would probably see some
> during night setback if the building there's some thermostat setting that
> will operate the evap coolers to remove air (and the associated heat build
> up) but i would not think it to be that significant of a savings compared to
> heat gain during occupied hours.
>
> i would think, as nick mentions in point 5, that the ummet cooling hours
> might be a better measure of what you are looking for.  improved glazing
> should help reduce the rate of heat gain so the evap coolers should be able
> to meet whatever setpoint you are using with less unmet cooling hours.  in
> reality i would think it would be more obvious by an occupant working
> proximity to the windows - if they're currently affected by the solar heat
> gain.  i don't know your climate but in southern arizona you don't really
> want to be seated right next to a window with a direct sun exposure and
> insufficient airflow (evap) or mechanical cooling and poor windows.
>
> On 8/16/11 2:22 PM, Nick Caton wrote: ****
>
> I hope we’re at a simple vocabulary disconnect here...****
>
>  ****
>
> Upgrading the windows will reduce your solar cooling loads.****
>
> Reducing your solar cooling loads will reduce the amount of heat to be
> removed from the building.****
>
> Reducing the amount of heat to remove will reduce the required hours of
> operation of your HVAC system (in this case, evaporative coolers) to
> maintain comfort.****
>
> Reducing the runtime of your evaporative coolers will result in reduced
> energy consumption.  Fan energies primarily, in the case of evaporative
> coolers.****
>
> In the event the existing system is not of sufficient capacity to begin
> with, you may also/instead observe a reduction in unmet cooling hours.****
>
>  ****
>
> The reduction of solar loads with a glazing upgrade could be *negligible*for a variety of possible reasons, but it’s unlikely the net effect is
> absolutely zero.  ****
>
>  ****
>
> ~Nick****
>
> [image: cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB]****
>
> * *****
>
> *NICK CATON, P.E.*****
>
> SENIOR ENGINEER****
>
>  ****
>
> Smith & Boucher Engineers****
>
> 25501 west valley parkway, suite 200****
>
> olathe, ks 66061****
>
> direct 913.344.0036****
>
> fax 913.345.0617****
>
> www.smithboucher.com* *****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* deepika khowal [mailto:deepika.khowal at gmail.com<deepika.khowal at gmail.com>]
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 16, 2011 3:11 PM
> *To:* Nick Caton
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] evaporative coolers in equest****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> This is an existing building with evaporative coolers.****
>
> the proposed design  to upgrade the windows and check the relative
> benefits.****
>
> I dont see much benefits in energy because  evaporative coolers are sized
> based on Cfm and not btus, the savings will be in cfms.****
>
> correct me if I am wrong.****
>
> is there any other way I can show the benefit in the proposed case if not
> HVAC benefits?****
>
> Thanks****
>
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Nick Caton <ncaton at smithboucher.com>
> wrote:****
>
> Hi Deepika,****
>
>  ****
>
> I’m not certain any increase/decrease in cooling loads (such as solar loads
> affected by changing glazing) should have any effect on the reported “space
> cooling energy” when you’re using evaporative coolers.  Direct evaporative
> (swamp) coolers of the simplest sort have only fan and pump energies to
> consider -  no refrigerant!  I would advise looking up the Detailed
> Simulation Reports Summary page 158/160 to review end use categories and
> what they cover. ****
>
>  ****
>
> I am unfamiliar with Bridgeport’s climate, but as a general rule if I
> observed a significant amount of glazing in a space served by a direct
> evaporative cooler… I’d be extra cautious to ensure the HVAC designer is
> carefully considering condensation and potential for other humidity-driven
> issues along the way.  I’m most used to seeing them applied to
> well-ventilated and/or open-air spaces such as garages and gyms/hangars.**
> **
>
>  ****
>
> ~Nick****
>
>  ****
>
> [image: cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB]****
>
> * *****
>
> *NICK CATON, P.E.*****
>
> SENIOR ENGINEER****
>
>  ****
>
> Smith & Boucher Engineers****
>
> 25501 west valley parkway, suite 200****
>
> olathe, ks 66061****
>
> direct 913.344.0036****
>
> fax 913.345.0617****
>
> www.smithboucher.com* *****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *deepika khowal
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 16, 2011 1:36 PM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] evaporative coolers in equest****
>
>  ****
>
> Hello all****
>
> I am modeling a building in Bridgeport, CA which has evaporative coolers.*
> ***
>
> I dont see any benefits if I replace existing clear glass with low-e in
> cooling energy consumption.****
>
> Did anyone model evaporative coolers/swamp coolers before?****
>
> I want to know whether there is a way to show cooling benefit with such
> HVAC system.****
>
> Thanks****
>
> Regards****
>
> Deepika****
>
>  ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
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