[Equest-users] Advanced Level Equest Classes

Arpan Bakshi arpanbakshi at gmail.com
Fri Jan 14 13:23:03 PST 2011


Nick,

Great input. I am curious how deletion of atria zones in ddedit compares to
the multi-level space zone characteristic option while you are creating
geometry. There is an allowance for gain assignment to only zone-lower
portion.

Arpan


On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Nick Caton <ncaton at smithboucher.com> wrote:

>  Hi Chris,
>
>
>
> Some running thoughts you might consider – all this in concert might get
> the job done, in any case it’s what I’d try first:
>
> -          Varying “floorplates”/zoning for each floor means you need
> unique shells per floor, which means you can’t use any of the
> “open-to-above/below” approaches to making an atrium with the wizards.  That
> simplifies the discussion somewhat: you’ll need to define this atrium
> somehow “manually.”
>
> -          I would draw out the “catwalk corridors” (assuming they’re
> covered and separately conditioned) on their respective shell-floors.  If
> they’re open to the atrium I’d ignore them entirely.
>
> -          I would finish everything up in the wizards, and upon entering
> detailed mode delete every created space/zone that’s part of the “atrium,”
> excepting the top level’s, which should include any roof/skylight surfaces
> and be retained.  Delete any child surfaces associated with these atrium
> zones excepting any interior partitions to the perimeter zones – if those
> exist, move the interior partitions to be a child component of the
> appropriate perimeter zone first before deleting the atrium zone.  You might
> be above to avoid this scenario in the wizards by defining the atrium zones
> LAST at the custom zone definition dialogs for each shell… not sure but
> worth a shot.
>
> -          I would modify the space geometries (volume) and its internal
> loads (# of people should account for the catwalks if they’re open) to match
> the full volume of the atrium
>
> -          Assign a SUM system as a placeholder to the atrium – goal being
> to have all its loads handled by the systems serving the perimeter spaces
>
> -          I would use the 2D view of each shell to modify all internal
> walls “open” to the atrium  in the actual design to be of type “AIR,” and to
> simultaneously ensure their parent space is associated to the large, common
> atrium space.  I *think* this will correctly tie the atrium’s internal
> loads to the others thermally… this is why we took care to keep those and
> not delete them along with the wizard-generated atrium spaces.
>
> -          I would use the “DIRECT” option for the HVAC systems’ return
> air path, rather than the plenum/duct options – I *think* this will
> indirectly ensure the heat gains/losses of any atrium skylights/roofs and
> the collective internal heat gains in the atrium find their way into the
> return air stream
>
>
>
> I can’t say 100% whether this is all you’d need to do, but it’s a game plan
> I would start with.  To make a comment regarding accuracy:  It’s probably
> fair to say eQuest, which doesn’t model complex CFD on an hourly basis, may
> not be as accurate in any end-case as some more costly software options may
> be for a large atrium as you’re describing.  This approach should be
> sufficient however for getting into the right ballpark, provided those “*
> think*” items above hold true (you might want to hold off for others’
> input).
>
>
>
>
>
> Best of luck – sounds like an interesting project to say the least =)!
>
>
>
> ~Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> PS:  I’ve never been compensated for my advice on these lists, and I’m not
> about to start asking, but neither have I taken on any liability or promise
> of availability as a formal instructor...  That said, I wouldn’t go home and
> cry myself to sleep if someone found anything valuable enough to compensate
> ^_^.
>
>
>
> [image: cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB]**
>
> * *
>
> *NICK CATON, E.I.T.***
>
> PROJECT ENGINEER
>
> Smith & Boucher Engineers
>
> 25501 west valley parkway
>
> olathe ks 66061
>
> direct 913 344.0036
>
> fax 913 345.0617
>
> www.smithboucher.com* *
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Chris Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, January 14, 2011 1:21 PM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Advanced Level Equest Classes
>
>
>
> The topic I consider advanced is modelling different floor plate shapes on
> each floor - with a multi-storey atrium in the middle.  The atrium has
> corridor catwalks for crossing from one side of the building to another.
> Supply air is transferred into the atrium from the surrounding spaces - the
> atrium is a return air plenum for multiple air handlers.
>
> I would gladly pay for a step by step tutorial on setting up the geometry
> for such a building.
>
>
>
>
>  I’ve been in discussions with those who make a business of eQuest/DOE2
> instruction regarding this issue… I think a major reason we don’t see many
> ‘advanced’ classes is: it would be very hard to develop a rubric/syllabus
> for an ‘advanced’ group of learners as it would seem there aren’t many
> ‘advanced’ topics that aren’t extremely system/project-specific (therefore
> seemingly of little interest to a group of learners at large).
>
> One exception that comes to mind that would probably be of common interest
> might be the evaluation and creation of chiller & heatpump performance
> curves – that skillset is frankly tough to self-learn (it took me a long
> while and multiple projects)…
>
> As an aside:  I might also cite a real-world experience where a local rep
> for Carrier hosted an event that included discussion/instruction for a
> single, narrow ‘advanced’ eQuest topic: geothermal well-field design using
> eQuest/DOE2.  The room was *packed**!  I hope more equipment reps in time
> will recognize the value and potential draw when advanced eQuest topic
> instruction is offered, even if only for a very narrow sort of system/topic.
>
> If you really would like formal, ‘advanced’ instruction, you might be
> best-advised to come up with a list of topics you want instruction/guidance
> on (make your own personal rubric), and share that list either publicly on
> the lists or directly with those who offer training services – you may be
> able to then filter out who is able and is willing to teach you some or all
> of your desired instruction individually, and at what cost.
>
> ~Nick
>
> * I would be remiss to not mention Anthony Hardman (frequent contributor to
> these lists) provided that instruction, and it was excellent.
>
>
>
> Chris Jones
> 14 Oneida Avenue
> Toronto, ON M5J 2E3.
> Tel.  416-203-7465
> Fax. 416-946-1005
>
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