[Equest-users] LEED review comments for System 5 heating source

[Paul Riemer]

Paul - thanks for raising that.
Lan- If your ‘misc. elec. heaters’ are in zones that are also served by your VRF system, then they are akin to baseboards and should not be modeled in your Baseline.  If they are in zones separate from your VRF, then you might have to revisit G3.1.1 and the exceptions to see if those zones qualify for separate system(s).  If they are electric resistance heating in vestibules, restrooms, or stairwells, those cases are fuzzy to me and I need to do more research.

Paul Riemer, PE, LEED AP
DUNHAM

From: Paul Diglio [mailto:paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 9:07 AM
To: Li, Lan; cmg750 at gmail.com; Paul Riemer
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] LEED review comments for System 5 heating source

Lan:

In the Advanced Energy Modeling for LEED Technical Manual v.1 page 28 under ASHRAE 90.1-2004 common errors for HVAC System, primary system type, the second error is 'Baseline HVAC systems use both fossil fuel and electricity'.

I assume this is why your reviewer requested that the baseline be changed to the predominate heating energy source that was used in the proposed model.


Paul Diglio

________________________________
From: "Li, Lan" <lli at sbmce.com>
To: Paul Diglio <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>; cmg750 at gmail.com; Paul.Riemer at dunhameng.com
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Sent: Fri, July 1, 2011 9:45:38 AM
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] LEED review comments for System 5 heating source
Paul, Paul and Carol,

This sentence just jumps into my eyes.  It is on ASHREA 90.1-2007 User’s manual page G-22.

Here is the interception.

The performance rating rules for the baseline building HVAC system are shown in Table G-A. This table shows the baseline building system types, based on building type (nonresidential or
residential), the number of floors, the floor area and the heating source (electric or other). Note that a hybrid system refers to a system with any combination of fossil and electric heat, and the baseline system for this is a fossil fuel system.

I think I will stick with my gun and go for it. I will keep all of you posted for the outcome of my review. Hopefully everyone will be clear on this matter then.

Thanks!

Lan
Lan Li, PE, LEED AP BD+C
Mechanical Engineer
Scheeser Buckley Mayfield LLC
1540 Corporate Woods Parkway
Uniontown, OH 44685
Phone: (330) 896-4664 ext. 123
Fax: (330) 896-9180
Cell:(330) 904-6292

lli at sbmce.com<mailto:lli at sbmce.com>
www.sbmce.com<http://www.sbmce.com/>

Columbus Office (614) 448-1498
ü Please consider the environment before printing this email.
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Thank you

________________________________
From: Paul Diglio [mailto:paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 5:48 PM
To: Li, Lan; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] LEED review comments for System 5 heating source

Lan:

90.1-2007 requires a system 5 with a fossil fuel hot water boiler as you have modeled, but in 90.1-2007 Table G3.1 Number 10 HVAC Systems Base Building Performance column it states that you need to meet any system-specific requirements in Section G3.1.3.

In G3.1.3.2, it states that for system 5, the boiler plant shall use the same fuel as the proposed design, which in your case is electric resistance and compressor heat pump energy.  I would model electric hot water boilers.

Paul Diglio

________________________________
From: "Li, Lan" <lli at sbmce.com>
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Sent: Thu, June 30, 2011 4:24:27 PM
Subject: [Equest-users] LEED review comments for System 5 heating source
Dear eQuesters,

I just got LEED review comments for my project. Our proposed design is VRF system with roof top unit providing ventilation air. Roof top unit is using gas as heating source. There are misc. elec. heaters in the building for places like entries. I interpreted my building heating source as “electric hybrid” and used hot water fossil fuel boiler as my base design. The comments I got read as the follows:

Section 1.1.A of the form indicates that the primary heating source is fossil fuel. However, the electric heating energy use reported in Table EAp2-5 for the Proposed Case exceeds the fossil fuel heating energy use. Please verify that the correct heating source has been selected. If electric heating is the primary heating source, please change the Baseline system type accordingly. Provide updated simulation results and a revised Prerequisite Form as necessary.

I couldn’t find an official definition either on LEED reference book or 90.1. What is your take on this?

Your input is highly appreciated! Thank you very much!

Lan




Lan Li, PE, LEED AP BD+C
Mechanical Engineer
Scheeser Buckley Mayfield LLC
1540 Corporate Woods Parkway
Uniontown, OH 44685
Phone: (330) 896-4664 ext. 123
Fax: (330) 896-9180
Cell:(330) 904-6292

lli at sbmce.com<mailto:lli at sbmce.com>
www.sbmce.com<http://www.sbmce.com/>

Columbus Office (614) 448-1498
ü Please consider the environment before printing this email.
This e-mail (including any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient or an authorized representative of an intended recipient, you are prohibited from using, copying or distributing the information in this e-mail or its attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies of this message and any attachments.
Thank you

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