[Equest-users] Actual daily weather data for year 2005 to 2010
Morteza Kasmai
morteza.kasmai at gmail.com
Wed Mar 30 15:46:18 PDT 2011
*Hi Vipul,*
* *
*You can download actual daily weather data files from here
http://cdo.ncdc.noaa.gov/pls/plclimprod/cdomain.abbrev2id
**Thanks,
Morteza*
2011/3/30 <equest-users-request at lists.onebuilding.org>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. question about inefficiency of duct (xiaoyang shi)
> 2. Re: question about inefficiency of duct (McArdle, Mike)
> 3. Re: question about inefficiency of duct (Paul Diglio)
> 4. Re: question about inefficiency of duct (Varkie C Thomas)
> 5. Re: question about inefficiency of duct (Nick Caton)
> 6. Re: question about inefficiency of duct (Nick Caton)
> 7. Re: question about inefficiency of duct (Paul Diglio)
> 8. How to understand WSHP Rated Performance Correction Factors?
> (Suka)
> 9. Re: Making sub meters (Jenny Zhang)
> 10. Re: question about inefficiency of duct (Andy Phelps)
> 11. FCU & occupancy Controls (Claudia De Paula)
> 12. Re: Thermal Blocks/HVAC Systems for LEED Credit (Bishop, Bill)
> 13. Re: question about inefficiency of duct (John Bixler)
> 14. Modeling DOAS with a dummy zone (Brian Smith)
> 15. Re: Modeling DOAS with a dummy zone (Jeremy Poling)
> 16. Re: Modeling DOAS with a dummy zone (Haddad, Kamel)
> 17. Re: Modeling DOAS with a dummy zone (Charles Land)
> 18. Actual daily weather data for year 2005 to 2010
> (vipulbabriya at aol.com)
> 19. Re: Actual daily weather data for year 2005 to 2010 (Ashu Gupta)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: xiaoyang shi <xs2144 at gmail.com>
> To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:36:38 -0400
> Subject: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
> Hi folks,
>
> In the winter time, some heat loss in HVAC is from duct.
>
> What is the percentage of heat loss through the duct to the total building
> heat load, due to the inefficiencies of duct delivery system?
>
> Thank you guys.
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "McArdle, Mike" <Mike.McAardle at state.vt.us>
> To: 'xiaoyang shi' <xs2144 at gmail.com>, "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org"
> <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:39:40 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
> Dear xiaoyang shi
>
>
>
> It Depends on the temperature differentials between air in duct and space
> and insulation thickness
>
>
>
> But more importantly , if the air in duct is the same air as the air being
> supplied to the space there is no net effect
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you, Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Michael J. McArdle , P.E.
>
> Buildings Engineer II, Project Manager
>
> State of Vermont,
>
> Buildings and General Services (BGS)
>
> 2 Governor Aiken Avenue
>
> Montpelier, Vt. 05633
>
>
>
> Office: 802-828-5650; cell: 802-272-4828
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *xiaoyang shi
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 5:37 PM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> In the winter time, some heat loss in HVAC is from duct.
>
> What is the percentage of heat loss through the duct to the total building
> heat load, due to the inefficiencies of duct delivery system?
>
> Thank you guys.
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Paul Diglio <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "McArdle, Mike" <Mike.McAardle at state.vt.us>, xiaoyang shi <
> xs2144 at gmail.com>, "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org" <
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:59:04 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
> Michael:
>
> "if the air in duct is the same air as the air being supplied to the space,
> there is no net effect"? What do you mean by net effect?
>
> The duct heat loss/gain depends on the difference of the temperature of the
> air in the duct and the temperature of the air surrounding the outside of
> the duct. It is highly unlikely that these temperature will be the same.
>
> Paul Diglio
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "McArdle, Mike" <Mike.McAardle at state.vt.us>
> *To:* xiaoyang shi <xs2144 at gmail.com>; "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org"
> <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> *Sent:* Tue, March 29, 2011 5:39:40 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
> Dear xiaoyang shi
>
>
>
> It Depends on the temperature differentials between air in duct and space
> and insulation thickness
>
>
>
> But more importantly , if the air in duct is the same air as the air being
> supplied to the space there is no net effect
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you, Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Michael J. McArdle , P.E.
>
> Buildings Engineer II, Project Manager
>
> State of Vermont,
>
> Buildings and General Services (BGS)
>
> 2 Governor Aiken Avenue
>
> Montpelier, Vt. 05633
>
>
>
> Office: 802-828-5650; cell: 802-272-4828
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *xiaoyang shi
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 5:37 PM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> In the winter time, some heat loss in HVAC is from duct.
>
> What is the percentage of heat loss through the duct to the total building
> heat load, due to the inefficiencies of duct delivery system?
>
> Thank you guys.
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Varkie C Thomas <thomasv at iit.edu>
> To: Paul Diglio <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:37:41 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
> See page 14 to 17 "Thermal Analysis"
>
> http://bepan.info/class-notes/e6_-_loads-ducts-pipes
>
> AES-Ductwork-System-Design<http://bepan.info/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/AES-Ductwork-System-Design.2134047.pdf>
>
> When the cooling DT (Room-Suppy Temp) is 20 degs, every degree temp rise
> from the cooling coil affects the supply air by 5%. For a draw-thru system
> with a supply static of 8" to 9" the heat gain across the fan, the temp
> rise can be significant. The rule of thumb in the old days, when no one
> could be bothered doing these calculations manually, the temp-rise was
> assumed to be = 0.5 x SP.
>
> The velocity upstream of the terminal box from the AHU through the
> unconditioned shafts of high-rise bldgs is typically about 4,000 fpm which
> results in low heat gain due to the high velocity. The terminal box and the
> low velocity ductwork is above conditioned space (typically RA plenum). If
> the ductwork is insulated on both sides of the TB, the rule of thumb for a
> temp rise through the ducts is about 1 - 2 degs which requires about a 10%
> increase in supply air.
>
> Before anyone replies to this message saying that it has wandered off the
> point from the issue being discussed, I will admit the reply is an excuse
> to for mentioning the website. I am thinking of closing it down if there is
> no interest from others in developing building energy analysis course
> material from a full design perspective and not just using computer
> program. The emphasis would be on teaching Energy Efficient Building Design
> with project case studies. It does not quite fit in with BEMBook The
> objectives are in the Introduction http://bepan.info/introduction
>
> Varkie
>
> Michael:
>
> "if the air in duct is the same air as the air being supplied to the space,
> there is no net effect"? What do you mean by net effect?
>
> The duct heat loss/gain depends on the difference of the temperature of the
> air in the duct and the temperature of the air surrounding the outside of
> the duct. It is highly unlikely that these temperature will be the same.
>
> Paul Diglio
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "McArdle, Mike" <Mike.McAardle at state.vt.us>
> *To:* xiaoyang shi <xs2144 at gmail.com>; "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org"
> <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> *Sent:* Tue, March 29, 2011 5:39:40 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
> Dear xiaoyang shi
>
>
>
> It Depends on the temperature differentials between air in duct and space
> and insulation thickness
>
>
>
> But more importantly , if the air in duct is the same air as the air being
> supplied to the space there is no net effect
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you, Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Michael J. McArdle , P.E.
>
> Buildings Engineer II, Project Manager
>
> State of Vermont,
>
> Buildings and General Services (BGS)
>
> 2 Governor Aiken Avenue
>
> Montpelier, Vt. 05633
>
>
>
> Office: 802-828-5650; cell: 802-272-4828
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *xiaoyang shi
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 5:37 PM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> In the winter time, some heat loss in HVAC is from duct.
>
> What is the percentage of heat loss through the duct to the total building
> heat load, due to the inefficiencies of duct delivery system?
>
> Thank you guys.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Equest-users mailing list
> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to
> EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Nick Caton" <ncaton at smithboucher.com>
> To: "Paul Diglio" <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>, "McArdle, Mike" <
> Mike.McAardle at state.vt.us>, "xiaoyang shi" <xs2144 at gmail.com>, <
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:03:32 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
> I think Mike’s general point is fair and isn’t to be taken in absolutes.
>
>
>
> When a ducted return air stream is passing through a conditioned space or
> plenums/chases in between other conditioned spaces, it’s probably a safe bet
> to claim any duct gains/losses are *negligible* (not nonexistent),
> particularly if said return ducts are insulated, due to the relatively small
> delta-T.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, winter losses and summertime gains at extreme
> temperatures may be considerable if any ductwork is routed exterior to the
> building, even if insulated.
>
>
>
> Xiaoyang, if you wish to calculate it as a percentage at design conditions:
> ( U x A x deltaT )DUCT / (total building heating or cooling load) x 100
>
>
>
> If you wanted to model such exterior duct heat losses/gains in eQuest… I
> haven’t considered that before – but depending on your system setup, it
> might be as simple as a small exterior wall surface with appropriate
> U-value and area equal to the duct surface area… in the event the solar
> loads incident on the duct might be significant, make a point to correctly
> locate the surface in 3D (over the roof, along a wall, etc.) to avoid any
> incorrect self-shading from other surfaces.
>
>
>
> If anyone has delved into this and knows a better/simpler way please do
> share =).
>
>
>
> ~Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB]**
>
> * *
>
> *NICK CATON, E.I.T.***
>
> PROJECT ENGINEER
>
> Smith & Boucher Engineers
>
> 25501 west valley parkway
>
> olathe ks 66061
>
> direct 913 344.0036
>
> fax 913 345.0617
>
> www.smithboucher.com* *
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Paul Diglio
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 4:59 PM
> *To:* McArdle, Mike; xiaoyang shi; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
>
>
> Michael:
>
> "if the air in duct is the same air as the air being supplied to the space,
> there is no net effect"? What do you mean by net effect?
>
> The duct heat loss/gain depends on the difference of the temperature of the
> air in the duct and the temperature of the air surrounding the outside of
> the duct. It is highly unlikely that these temperature will be the same.
>
> Paul Diglio
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* "McArdle, Mike" <Mike.McAardle at state.vt.us>
> *To:* xiaoyang shi <xs2144 at gmail.com>; "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org"
> <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> *Sent:* Tue, March 29, 2011 5:39:40 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
> Dear xiaoyang shi
>
>
>
> It Depends on the temperature differentials between air in duct and space
> and insulation thickness
>
>
>
> But more importantly , if the air in duct is the same air as the air being
> supplied to the space there is no net effect
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you, Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Michael J. McArdle , P.E.
>
> Buildings Engineer II, Project Manager
>
> State of Vermont,
>
> Buildings and General Services (BGS)
>
> 2 Governor Aiken Avenue
>
> Montpelier, Vt. 05633
>
>
>
> Office: 802-828-5650; cell: 802-272-4828
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *xiaoyang shi
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 5:37 PM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> In the winter time, some heat loss in HVAC is from duct.
>
> What is the percentage of heat loss through the duct to the total building
> heat load, due to the inefficiencies of duct delivery system?
>
> Thank you guys.
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Nick Caton" <ncaton at smithboucher.com>
> To: "Varkie C Thomas" <thomasv at iit.edu>, "Paul Diglio" <
> paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:18:26 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
> Varkie,
>
>
>
> I’ve found your website fascinating, personally.
>
>
>
> I’m not currently an educator, so perhaps I’m not the intended audience,
> but as an MEP designer actively practicing energy modeling in industry
> (outside of academia) I’ve stumbled into and found the BEPAN site to be very
> handy multiple times. Anyone who hasn’t perused the site might want to dig
> around a bit… there’s quite a few tools/spreadsheet examples provided which
> I’ve found interesting-to-useful, though finding any one thing can be tricky
> as it’s quite a lot of material!
>
>
>
> I hope the site doesn’t go down, or else if it should have to you’ll give
> us a fair warning to scramble and make copies of useful references/tools
> =). It seems to exist solely as a good-faith contribution to helping others
> learn from your past experiences, and for that I hope you know I for one
> very much appreciate your efforts!
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> ~Nick
>
> [image: cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB]**
>
> * *
>
> *NICK CATON, E.I.T.***
>
> PROJECT ENGINEER
>
> Smith & Boucher Engineers
>
> 25501 west valley parkway
>
> olathe ks 66061
>
> direct 913 344.0036
>
> fax 913 345.0617
>
> www.smithboucher.com* *
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Varkie C Thomas
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 6:38 PM
> *To:* Paul Diglio
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org; xiaoyang shi
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
>
>
> See page 14 to 17 "Thermal Analysis"
>
> http://bepan.info/class-notes/e6_-_loads-ducts-pipes
>
> AES-Ductwork-System-Design<http://bepan.info/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/AES-Ductwork-System-Design.2134047.pdf>
>
> When the cooling DT (Room-Suppy Temp) is 20 degs, every degree temp rise
> from the cooling coil affects the supply air by 5%. For a draw-thru system
> with a supply static of 8" to 9" the heat gain across the fan, the temp
> rise can be significant. The rule of thumb in the old days, when no one
> could be bothered doing these calculations manually, the temp-rise was
> assumed to be = 0.5 x SP.
>
> The velocity upstream of the terminal box from the AHU through the
> unconditioned shafts of high-rise bldgs is typically about 4,000 fpm which
> results in low heat gain due to the high velocity. The terminal box and the
> low velocity ductwork is above conditioned space (typically RA plenum). If
> the ductwork is insulated on both sides of the TB, the rule of thumb for a
> temp rise through the ducts is about 1 - 2 degs which requires about a 10%
> increase in supply air.
>
> Before anyone replies to this message saying that it has wandered off the
> point from the issue being discussed, I will admit the reply is an excuse
> to for mentioning the website. I am thinking of closing it down if there is
> no interest from others in developing building energy analysis course
> material from a full design perspective and not just using computer
> program. The emphasis would be on teaching Energy Efficient Building Design
> with project case studies. It does not quite fit in with BEMBook The
> objectives are in the Introduction http://bepan.info/introduction
>
> Varkie
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Paul Diglio <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>
> To: Nick Caton <ncaton at smithboucher.com>, "McArdle, Mike" <
> Mike.McAardle at state.vt.us>, xiaoyang shi <xs2144 at gmail.com>,
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:31:36 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
> Nick:
>
> For a supply duct passing through a plenum return ceiling during the
> cooling season, the temperature difference between the supply air and return
> air can be as much as 25 degrees.
>
> During the heating season, this difference could be as much as 30 degrees
> during morning warm up.
>
> Paul Diglio
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Nick Caton <ncaton at smithboucher.com>
> *To:* Paul Diglio <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>; "McArdle, Mike" <
> Mike.McAardle at state.vt.us>; xiaoyang shi <xs2144 at gmail.com>;
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Sent:* Tue, March 29, 2011 8:03:32 PM
> *Subject:* RE: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
> I think Mike’s general point is fair and isn’t to be taken in absolutes.
>
>
>
>
> When a ducted return air stream is passing through a conditioned space or
> plenums/chases in between other conditioned spaces, it’s probably a safe bet
> to claim any duct gains/losses are *negligible* (not nonexistent),
> particularly if said return ducts are insulated, due to the relatively small
> delta-T.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, winter losses and summertime gains at extreme
> temperatures may be considerable if any ductwork is routed exterior to the
> building, even if insulated.
>
>
>
> Xiaoyang, if you wish to calculate it as a percentage at design conditions:
> ( U x A x deltaT )DUCT / (total building heating or cooling load) x 100
>
>
>
> If you wanted to model such exterior duct heat losses/gains in eQuest… I
> haven’t considered that before – but depending on your system setup, it
> might be as simple as a small exterior wall surface with appropriate
> U-value and area equal to the duct surface area… in the event the solar
> loads incident on the duct might be significant, make a point to correctly
> locate the surface in 3D (over the roof, along a wall, etc.) to avoid any
> incorrect self-shading from other surfaces.
>
>
>
> If anyone has delved into this and knows a better/simpler way please do
> share =).
>
>
>
> ~Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB]**
>
> * *
>
> *NICK CATON, E.I.T.***
>
> PROJECT ENGINEER
>
> Smith & Boucher Engineers
>
> 25501 west valley parkway
>
> olathe ks 66061
>
> direct 913 344.0036
>
> fax 913 345.0617
>
> www.smithboucher.com* *
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Paul Diglio
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 4:59 PM
> *To:* McArdle, Mike; xiaoyang shi; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
>
>
> Michael:
>
> "if the air in duct is the same air as the air being supplied to the space,
> there is no net effect"? What do you mean by net effect?
>
> The duct heat loss/gain depends on the difference of the temperature of the
> air in the duct and the temperature of the air surrounding the outside of
> the duct. It is highly unlikely that these temperature will be the same.
>
> Paul Diglio
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* "McArdle, Mike" <Mike.McAardle at state.vt.us>
> *To:* xiaoyang shi <xs2144 at gmail.com>; "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org"
> <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> *Sent:* Tue, March 29, 2011 5:39:40 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
> Dear xiaoyang shi
>
>
>
> It Depends on the temperature differentials between air in duct and space
> and insulation thickness
>
>
>
> But more importantly , if the air in duct is the same air as the air being
> supplied to the space there is no net effect
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you, Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Michael J. McArdle , P.E.
>
> Buildings Engineer II, Project Manager
>
> State of Vermont,
>
> Buildings and General Services (BGS)
>
> 2 Governor Aiken Avenue
>
> Montpelier, Vt. 05633
>
>
>
> Office: 802-828-5650; cell: 802-272-4828
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *xiaoyang shi
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 5:37 PM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> In the winter time, some heat loss in HVAC is from duct.
>
> What is the percentage of heat loss through the duct to the total building
> heat load, due to the inefficiencies of duct delivery system?
>
> Thank you guys.
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Suka <leedusersuka at 163.com>
> To: equest-users <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:56:08 +0800 (CST)
> Subject: [Equest-users] How to understand WSHP Rated Performance Correction
> Factors?
>
> Hi dear all,
>
> Please see below picture. Now I used "PVVT" system to simulate fresh air
> heat recovery, but the performance curves changed to " GSHP/WLHP_*", not
> "HP_*". I watched item help "Water-Loop and Geothermal Heat Pump Systems",
> Table 51. Because my system is use boiler and fluid cooler, so I use the
> correction factors to multiplier cooling/heating Capacity and EIR. Not
> consider of fresh air heat recovery, the resulte decreased almost 5% from
> using "WLHP" system. But if not multiplier the correction factors, the
> resulte increased than using "WLHP" system.
>
> How to understand the correction factors? Should I use it?
>
> Anyone knows please help me. Thank u!!!
>
>
>
> *Best Regards,*
>
> *Fiona Xiang*
> Project Engineer
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jenny Zhang <jenny.zhang at arup.com>
> To: "'M. Shields'" <mshields at fstrategies.com>, "'
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org'" <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:50:07 +0800
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Making sub meters
>
> you should go back to other parameter setting spaces to like the meters and
> related load.
>
> for example, you could find airside-system> >meters> >select the meter
> which you want to attach to.
>
> For chillers/boilers you could find meter assignments in the basic
> specification.
>
>
>
> JENNY Z.
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *M. Shields
> *Sent:* 2011年3月29日 21:05
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] Making sub meters
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I think this should be fairly simple to set up, but I must be missing
> something. I am wondering how I can set up sub meters for different loads
> such as all the plug loads, or all the electric consumption for one/multiple
> zones of my building. I created a sub meter but I cannot figure out how to
> define what loads are then recorded on that submeter. Could anyone give me
> a quick rundown of how to create and add loads to a sub meter.
>
>
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
>
>
> ____________________________
> Michael Shields
> Facility Strategies Group, LLC
>
> 1012 Market Street, Suite 307
>
> Fort Mill, SC 29708
>
> Phone: 803-493-4507
>
> Fax: 803-548-2511
> Email: mshields at fstrategies.com
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
> systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Andy Phelps" <aphelps at barnesanddodge.com>
> To: "Paul Diglio" <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>, "Nick Caton" <
> ncaton at smithboucher.com>, "McArdle, Mike" <Mike.McAardle at state.vt.us>,
> "xiaoyang shi" <xs2144 at gmail.com>, <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:11:41 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
> If you’re looking to see what change in temp you have based on a length of
> duct, insulation, etc, check out:
>
>
>
> http://www.mcgillairflow.com/textDocs/techTools/converted/thermalData1.php
>
>
>
> This calculator is really meant for exterior applications as well as
> determining if condensation will occur (and you have to use their preset
> products for insulation thickness & k values), but it can be a quick
> reference for us looking to see what an avg heat loss might be in a duct
> system. (I’m sure there’s a reference to the ASHRAE handbooks, but I’m
> drawing a blank right now…)
>
>
>
> What I am unsure of in eQuest is how it uses Supply Duct UA and Duct Delta
> T. If heat is lost in the duct, is it gained in the ceiling space or
> plenum?? If that is the case, then the arguments below that the overall net
> effect is negligible is a good one. However, fan energy will increase since
> the delta T of the supply air to room air decreases.
>
>
>
>
>
> Andy Phelps, PE, LEED AP | BARNES & DODGE, INC*.* |
> aphelps at barnesanddodge.com | (o) 913-321-6444 | (c) 913-710-7915 |
>
> *The information contained in this electronic message is confidential and
> is or may be protected by trade secret protections, and/or other applicable
> protections from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
> distribution or reproduction of this communication is strictly prohibited.
> If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify
> us by calling 913-321-6444, or by e-mail to front at barnesanddodge.com, and
> immediately delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Although
> this e-mail message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus
> or other defect that might negatively affect any computer system into which
> it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to
> ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Barnes &
> Dodge, Inc. for any loss or damage arising in any way in the event that such
> a virus or defect exists. Thank you.***
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Paul Diglio
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 7:32 PM
> *To:* Nick Caton; McArdle, Mike; xiaoyang shi;
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
>
>
> Nick:
>
> For a supply duct passing through a plenum return ceiling during the
> cooling season, the temperature difference between the supply air and return
> air can be as much as 25 degrees.
>
> During the heating season, this difference could be as much as 30 degrees
> during morning warm up.
>
> Paul Diglio
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Nick Caton <ncaton at smithboucher.com>
> *To:* Paul Diglio <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>; "McArdle, Mike" <
> Mike.McAardle at state.vt.us>; xiaoyang shi <xs2144 at gmail.com>;
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Sent:* Tue, March 29, 2011 8:03:32 PM
> *Subject:* RE: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
> I think Mike’s general point is fair and isn’t to be taken in absolutes.
>
>
>
> When a ducted return air stream is passing through a conditioned space or
> plenums/chases in between other conditioned spaces, it’s probably a safe bet
> to claim any duct gains/losses are *negligible* (not nonexistent),
> particularly if said return ducts are insulated, due to the relatively small
> delta-T.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, winter losses and summertime gains at extreme
> temperatures may be considerable if any ductwork is routed exterior to the
> building, even if insulated.
>
>
>
> Xiaoyang, if you wish to calculate it as a percentage at design conditions:
> ( U x A x deltaT )DUCT / (total building heating or cooling load) x 100
>
>
>
> If you wanted to model such exterior duct heat losses/gains in eQuest… I
> haven’t considered that before – but depending on your system setup, it
> might be as simple as a small exterior wall surface with appropriate
> U-value and area equal to the duct surface area… in the event the solar
> loads incident on the duct might be significant, make a point to correctly
> locate the surface in 3D (over the roof, along a wall, etc.) to avoid any
> incorrect self-shading from other surfaces.
>
>
>
> If anyone has delved into this and knows a better/simpler way please do
> share =).
>
>
>
> ~Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB]
>
> * *
>
> *NICK CATON, E.I.T.*
>
> PROJECT ENGINEER
>
> Smith & Boucher Engineers
>
> 25501 west valley parkway
>
> olathe ks 66061
>
> direct 913 344.0036
>
> fax 913 345.0617
>
> www.smithboucher.com* *
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Paul Diglio
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 4:59 PM
> *To:* McArdle, Mike; xiaoyang shi; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
>
>
> Michael:
>
> "if the air in duct is the same air as the air being supplied to the space,
> there is no net effect"? What do you mean by net effect?
>
> The duct heat loss/gain depends on the difference of the temperature of the
> air in the duct and the temperature of the air surrounding the outside of
> the duct. It is highly unlikely that these temperature will be the same.
>
> Paul Diglio
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* "McArdle, Mike" <Mike.McAardle at state.vt.us>
> *To:* xiaoyang shi <xs2144 at gmail.com>; "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org"
> <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> *Sent:* Tue, March 29, 2011 5:39:40 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
> Dear xiaoyang shi
>
>
>
> It Depends on the temperature differentials between air in duct and space
> and insulation thickness
>
>
>
> But more importantly , if the air in duct is the same air as the air being
> supplied to the space there is no net effect
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you, Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Michael J. McArdle , P.E.
>
> Buildings Engineer II, Project Manager
>
> State of Vermont,
>
> Buildings and General Services (BGS)
>
> 2 Governor Aiken Avenue
>
> Montpelier, Vt. 05633
>
>
>
> Office: 802-828-5650; cell: 802-272-4828
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *xiaoyang shi
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 5:37 PM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> In the winter time, some heat loss in HVAC is from duct.
>
> What is the percentage of heat loss through the duct to the total building
> heat load, due to the inefficiencies of duct delivery system?
>
> Thank you guys.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Claudia De Paula <claudia_dp at GroupVE.co.il>
> To: "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org" <
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:22:06 +0200
> Subject: [Equest-users] FCU & occupancy Controls
>
> Has anyone had any success in representing HVAC occupancy controls for
> energy savings in LEED? If so, how did you submit your calculations or did
> you just input new Fan schedules to simulate the ON & OFF of the units to
> respond to the occupancy schedules of the building?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Claudia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> * IMPORTANT: The contents of this email and any attachments are
> confidential. They are intended for the named recipient(s) only.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the system manager
> or the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to anyone or make
> copies thereof.
> ***** eSafe scanned this email for viruses, vandals, and malicious
> content. ****
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Bishop, Bill" <wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com>
> To: "M. Shields" <mshields at fstrategies.com>, <
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:47:09 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Thermal Blocks/HVAC Systems for LEED Credit
>
> Michael,
>
>
>
> If it were me, I would not try to model multiple zones as a single thermal
> block if the zones are served by different-sized systems. Different system
> sizes imply the zones are not thermally-similar.
>
>
>
> If you have created thermal blocks of stacked apartments that ARE served by
> the same sized systems, then I think you are justified in modeling a single
> system for that zone with the combined capacities of all the systems and
> using the efficiency of those systems. But I agree with the reviewer that
> you should model each different “stack” with the size and efficiency of the
> identical systems in that stack.
>
>
>
> The 90.1 User’s Manual goes into detail about how/when to create thermal
> blocks, but I can’t find where it describes how to combine systems, so this
> is just my opinion.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> *William** Bishop, PE**, BEMP, LEED® AP **|** **Pathfinder Engineers &
> Architects LLP***
>
> Mechanical Engineer
>
>
>
> 134 South Fitzhugh Street Rochester, NY 14608
> T: (585) 325-6004 Ext. 114 F: (585) 325-6005
>
> wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com www.pathfinder-ea.com
>
> P Sustainability – the forest AND the trees. P
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *M. Shields
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 3:36 PM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] Thermal Blocks/HVAC Systems for LEED Credit
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> I have modeled a multifamily building for LEED which uses a variable
> refrigerant flow system. In the building each stack of apartment’s heating
> and cooling is provided by one unit, but the stack next door is provided by
> a different unit. The efficiency is determined by the outdoor unit and
> varies slightly by size, which is not the same for all apartment units. I
> have modeled several apartments as one thermal block and I had calculated an
> overall system efficiency by doing a weighted average based on system size.
> My reviewer has commented that per G3.1.10a I need to use the individual
> system size and efficiency for each system. I am wondering if they will
> accept a weighted average by thermal block instead of an overall system
> average. It seems quite clear under G3.1.9 that modeling multiple
> apartments on the same wall is perfectly acceptable. Do you need to have
> multiple systems serve each zone? I did not think this is possible.
>
>
>
> Any thoughts/experience with this situation would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> ____________________________
> Michael Shields
> Facility Strategies Group, LLC
>
> 1012 Market Street, Suite 307
>
> Fort Mill, SC 29708
>
> Phone: 803-493-4507
>
> Fax: 803-548-2511
> Email: mshields at fstrategies.com
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: John Bixler <JBixler at Sebesta.com>
> To: Paul Diglio <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>, "
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org" <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:14:39 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
> In addition to significant delta Ts, please also consider the additional
> airflow required to cool/heat a space when the supply air delta T (between
> the supply air and the conditioned space) is lowered due to duct losses.
>
>
>
> Example: Say the cooling load requires 100 cfm to cool a space assuming a
> supply air temp of 55 and a perfectly insulated duct (that is, a duct with
> no change in temp as it leaves the AHU and gets to the space). The room is
> 70 degrees, so which makes the sensible cooling in the space about 1630 btu.
>
>
>
>
> Now take this same room, and assume the duct gains 5 degrees between the
> AHU and the space (note, I am not talking about heat gain from fan energy
> here). Now the air being supplied to the space is 60 degrees, and to
> maintain the same sensible cooling capacity, the airflow must be 150 cfm, a
> 50% increase (!).
>
>
>
> This heat is not lost to the space being cooled (most likely). The idea of
> **neglible** loss at the room level does not apply.
>
>
>
> At the system level, the idea of **neglible** energy loss may or may not
> apply. CLEARLY there is additional fan energy used. The heat that is lost
> from the duct to somewhere, may be recovered to a large degree (in the case
> of a 100% return air system, where the primary area of energy loss COULD be
> additional heat gained in the plenum due to increased delta t between the
> plenum and the OA temp) or it may be lost entirely (in the case of a 100% OA
> system, which is obviously already a big energy user and this simply adds to
> the problem). In the case of significant relief of the air the heat is lost
> to, there is also a large impact on cooling and heating energy as you are
> moving more air, and trying to maintain the same setpoints at the system
> level.
>
>
>
> The notion that there is no net effect is really only true if the heat is
> being lost/gained directly at the location of the temperature sensor/tstat.
>
>
>
> (Most buildings these days have appropriate insulation on the ductwork
> which minimizes this effect, but it wasn’t that long ago when this wasn’t
> the case)
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Paul Diglio
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 7:32 PM
> *To:* John Bixler
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
>
>
> Nick:
>
> For a supply duct passing through a plenum return ceiling during the
> cooling season, the temperature difference between the supply air and return
> air can be as much as 25 degrees.
>
> During the heating season, this difference could be as much as 30 degrees
> during morning warm up.
>
> Paul Diglio
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Nick Caton <ncaton at smithboucher.com>
> *To:* Paul Diglio <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>; "McArdle, Mike" <
> Mike.McAardle at state.vt.us>; xiaoyang shi <xs2144 at gmail.com>;
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Sent:* Tue, March 29, 2011 8:03:32 PM
> *Subject:* RE: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
> I think Mike’s general point is fair and isn’t to be taken in absolutes.
>
>
>
> When a ducted return air stream is passing through a conditioned space or
> plenums/chases in between other conditioned spaces, it’s probably a safe bet
> to claim any duct gains/losses are *negligible* (not nonexistent),
> particularly if said return ducts are insulated, due to the relatively small
> delta-T.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, winter losses and summertime gains at extreme
> temperatures may be considerable if any ductwork is routed exterior to the
> building, even if insulated.
>
>
>
> Xiaoyang, if you wish to calculate it as a percentage at design conditions:
> ( U x A x deltaT )DUCT / (total building heating or cooling load) x 100
>
>
>
> If you wanted to model such exterior duct heat losses/gains in eQuest… I
> haven’t considered that before – but depending on your system setup, it
> might be as simple as a small exterior wall surface with appropriate
> U-value and area equal to the duct surface area… in the event the solar
> loads incident on the duct might be significant, make a point to correctly
> locate the surface in 3D (over the roof, along a wall, etc.) to avoid any
> incorrect self-shading from other surfaces.
>
>
>
> If anyone has delved into this and knows a better/simpler way please do
> share =).
>
>
>
> ~Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB]
>
> * *
>
> *NICK CATON, E.I.T.*
>
> PROJECT ENGINEER
>
> Smith & Boucher Engineers
>
> 25501 west valley parkway
>
> olathe ks 66061
>
> direct 913 344.0036
>
> fax 913 345.0617
>
> www.smithboucher.com* *
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Paul Diglio
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 4:59 PM
> *To:* McArdle, Mike; xiaoyang shi; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
>
>
> Michael:
>
> "if the air in duct is the same air as the air being supplied to the space,
> there is no net effect"? What do you mean by net effect?
>
> The duct heat loss/gain depends on the difference of the temperature of the
> air in the duct and the temperature of the air surrounding the outside of
> the duct. It is highly unlikely that these temperature will be the same.
>
> Paul Diglio
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* "McArdle, Mike" <Mike.McAardle at state.vt.us>
> *To:* xiaoyang shi <xs2144 at gmail.com>; "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org"
> <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> *Sent:* Tue, March 29, 2011 5:39:40 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
> Dear xiaoyang shi
>
>
>
> It Depends on the temperature differentials between air in duct and space
> and insulation thickness
>
>
>
> But more importantly , if the air in duct is the same air as the air being
> supplied to the space there is no net effect
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you, Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Michael J. McArdle , P.E.
>
> Buildings Engineer II, Project Manager
>
> State of Vermont,
>
> Buildings and General Services (BGS)
>
> 2 Governor Aiken Avenue
>
> Montpelier, Vt. 05633
>
>
>
> Office: 802-828-5650; cell: 802-272-4828
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *xiaoyang shi
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 5:37 PM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] question about inefficiency of duct
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> In the winter time, some heat loss in HVAC is from duct.
>
> What is the percentage of heat loss through the duct to the total building
> heat load, due to the inefficiencies of duct delivery system?
>
> Thank you guys.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Brian Smith" <brians at murraypc.com>
> To: <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:13:11 -0800
> Subject: [Equest-users] Modeling DOAS with a dummy zone
>
> Thanks for your replays to my email, it was very much appreciated. I tried
> modeling the doas system with a dummy zone and OA from system. While looking
> at my Air side reports I found that the DOAS system OSA equaled the sum OSA
> from each zone in each system (fine that’s logical). But each system has its
> own OSA total which is larger than the sum of OSA requirements of its zones
> (not sure why). Whether I model a doas dummy or not the individual system
> still require the same amount of OSA. Therefore with the dummy air totals
> added to the system air totals my building needs more OSA and consumes more
> BTU’s. Not sure what all this means but It would seem bad? Any insights,
> does this sound right? This makes me think if I could eliminate this Dummy
> Doas system and zones, and work in the components of DOAS into the other
> systems I would at least find a different result, but right?
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Brian Smith, Mechanical Design Engineer
>
> Murray & Associates, P.C.
>
> T/907.780.6151 F/907.780.6182
>
> www.murraypc.com
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jeremy Poling <Jeremy.Poling at transwestern.net>
> To: <brians at murraypc.com>, <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:37:43 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Modeling DOAS with a dummy zone
>
> Brian,
>
>
>
> First: here’s what the help file says about how the system comes up with
> OSA flows:
>
>
>
> *OA-FROM**-SYSTEM*
>
> Takes the U-name of the system that supplies dehumidified make-up air
> either directly, or through the corridor, to apartments or hotel rooms. Make
> sure that minimum outside air of a make-up air system assigned to the
> corridor matches the sum of the minimum outside air flow rate of the
> apartments or hotel rooms. In the input, define the make-up air system prior
> to the apartment or hotel room system. Several Error and Warning messages
> are present to prevent incorrect simulations and only simple sizing
> calculations are available for OA-FROM-SYSTEM referenced SYSTEMs. In
> previous versions of DOE-2.2 (before 44c) and 2.1E, if a SYSTEM had an
> OA-FROM-SYSTEM specified, the referencing SYSTEM value for MIN-OUTSIDE-AIR
> was reset to the MIN-OUTSIDE-AIR of the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM; this
> has been removed and replaced with the action as described next. The sum of
> the OA requirements for all SYSTEMs that reference an OA-FROM-SYSTEM is
> used to set the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM value for MIN-OUTSIDE-AIR,
> SUPPLY-FLOW as well as adjust the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM directly
> served ZONE maximum and minimum flows for both heating and cooling.
> Additionally the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM has its calculated/specified
> cooling (total and sensible), heating, and preheat capacities adjusted if
> its SUPPLY-FLOW was increased. If the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM and its
> ZONEs have sufficient minimum OA specified (greater than that required by
> the referencing SYSTEMs) no adjustments are made. If any adjustments are
> made a warning is issued that informs the user of the adjustments and
> recommends the project be re-run with the values in the input corrected.
> Also, errors are issued (and the simulation terminated) if the referenced
> OA-FROM-SYSTEM is either an incorrect type (a zonal system or a system
> that cannot have outside air) or the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM is not
> placed into the input file before all referencing SYSTEMs.
>
>
>
>
>
> There could also be a couple of places causing the system OSA to exceed the
> sum of the zone OSA for each system, depending on how you set the model up:
>
>
>
> - If your project has a specified elevation greater than 0 then
> eQuest will be correcting airflows for elevation. ASHRAE Fundamentals
> directs that if you’re less than 1,000 ft above sea level you can usually
> ignore elevation effects on CFM values, therefore if that applies you can
> zero out that value (see below)
>
>
>
>
>
> - If you’re looking at the proposed model, make sure you don’t have
> any sizing factors in place for the system (unless you intend to run the
> calculations that way).
>
>
>
>
>
> *Jeremy R. Poling, PE, LEED AP+BDC*
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Brian Smith
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 30, 2011 11:13 AM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] Modeling DOAS with a dummy zone
>
>
>
> Thanks for your replays to my email, it was very much appreciated. I tried
> modeling the doas system with a dummy zone and OA from system. While looking
> at my Air side reports I found that the DOAS system OSA equaled the sum OSA
> from each zone in each system (fine that’s logical). But each system has its
> own OSA total which is larger than the sum of OSA requirements of its zones
> (not sure why). Whether I model a doas dummy or not the individual system
> still require the same amount of OSA. Therefore with the dummy air totals
> added to the system air totals my building needs more OSA and consumes more
> BTU’s. Not sure what all this means but It would seem bad? Any insights,
> does this sound right? This makes me think if I could eliminate this Dummy
> Doas system and zones, and work in the components of DOAS into the other
> systems I would at least find a different result, but right?
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Brian Smith, Mechanical Design Engineer
>
> Murray & Associates, P.C.
>
> T/907.780.6151 F/907.780.6182
>
> www.murraypc.com
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Haddad, Kamel" <Kamel.Haddad at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca>
> To: "Jeremy Poling" <Jeremy.Poling at transwestern.net>, <brians at murraypc.com>,
> <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:01:35 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Modeling DOAS with a dummy zone
> I would also add here that you can sign the OA for the system either
> based on "Sum of Zone OA" or "Set by Critical Zone".
>
> When you size using "Set by Critical Zone" the system OA will be greater
> than the sum of the zone OA requirements to compensate for the diversity in
> the OA requirements of the zones.
>
> Kamel Haddad
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy Poling
> *Sent:* March 30, 2011 12:38
> *To:* brians at murraypc.com; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Modeling DOAS with a dummy zone
>
> Brian,
>
>
>
> First: here’s what the help file says about how the system comes up with
> OSA flows:
>
>
>
> *OA-FROM**-SYSTEM*
>
> Takes the U-name of the system that supplies dehumidified make-up air
> either directly, or through the corridor, to apartments or hotel rooms. Make
> sure that minimum outside air of a make-up air system assigned to the
> corridor matches the sum of the minimum outside air flow rate of the
> apartments or hotel rooms. In the input, define the make-up air system prior
> to the apartment or hotel room system. Several Error and Warning messages
> are present to prevent incorrect simulations and only simple sizing
> calculations are available for OA-FROM-SYSTEM referenced SYSTEMs. In
> previous versions of DOE-2.2 (before 44c) and 2.1E, if a SYSTEM had an
> OA-FROM-SYSTEM specified, the referencing SYSTEM value for MIN-OUTSIDE-AIR
> was reset to the MIN-OUTSIDE-AIR of the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM; this
> has been removed and replaced with the action as described next. The sum of
> the OA requirements for all SYSTEMs that reference an OA-FROM-SYSTEM is
> used to set the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM value for MIN-OUTSIDE-AIR,
> SUPPLY-FLOW as well as adjust the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM directly
> served ZONE maximum and minimum flows for both heating and cooling.
> Additionally the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM has its calculated/specified
> cooling (total and sensible), heating, and preheat capacities adjusted if
> its SUPPLY-FLOW was increased. If the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM and its
> ZONEs have sufficient minimum OA specified (greater than that required by
> the referencing SYSTEMs) no adjustments are made. If any adjustments are
> made a warning is issued that informs the user of the adjustments and
> recommends the project be re-run with the values in the input corrected.
> Also, errors are issued (and the simulation terminated) if the referenced
> OA-FROM-SYSTEM is either an incorrect type (a zonal system or a system
> that cannot have outside air) or the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM is not
> placed into the input file before all referencing SYSTEMs.
>
>
>
>
>
> There could also be a couple of places causing the system OSA to exceed the
> sum of the zone OSA for each system, depending on how you set the model up:
>
>
>
> - If your project has a specified elevation greater than 0 then
> eQuest will be correcting airflows for elevation. ASHRAE Fundamentals
> directs that if you’re less than 1,000 ft above sea level you can usually
> ignore elevation effects on CFM values, therefore if that applies you can
> zero out that value (see below)
>
>
>
>
>
> - If you’re looking at the proposed model, make sure you don’t have
> any sizing factors in place for the system (unless you intend to run the
> calculations that way).
>
>
>
>
>
> *Jeremy R. Poling, PE, LEED AP+BDC*
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Brian Smith
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 30, 2011 11:13 AM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] Modeling DOAS with a dummy zone
>
>
>
> Thanks for your replays to my email, it was very much appreciated. I tried
> modeling the doas system with a dummy zone and OA from system. While looking
> at my Air side reports I found that the DOAS system OSA equaled the sum OSA
> from each zone in each system (fine that’s logical). But each system has its
> own OSA total which is larger than the sum of OSA requirements of its zones
> (not sure why). Whether I model a doas dummy or not the individual system
> still require the same amount of OSA. Therefore with the dummy air totals
> added to the system air totals my building needs more OSA and consumes more
> BTU’s. Not sure what all this means but It would seem bad? Any insights,
> does this sound right? This makes me think if I could eliminate this Dummy
> Doas system and zones, and work in the components of DOAS into the other
> systems I would at least find a different result, but right?
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Brian Smith, Mechanical Design Engineer
>
> Murray & Associates, P.C.
>
> T/907.780.6151 F/907.780.6182
>
> www.murraypc.com
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Charles Land <cland at geo-marine.com>
> To: "Haddad, Kamel" <Kamel.Haddad at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca>, Jeremy Poling <
> Jeremy.Poling at transwestern.net>, "brians at murraypc.com" <
> brians at murraypc.com>, "equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org" <
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:25:13 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Modeling DOAS with a dummy zone
>
> I would also check the outside air per person under the zones.
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Haddad, Kamel
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 30, 2011 1:02 PM
> *To:* Jeremy Poling; brians at murraypc.com;
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Modeling DOAS with a dummy zone
>
>
>
> I would also add here that you can sign the OA for the system either based
> on "Sum of Zone OA" or "Set by Critical Zone".
>
>
>
> When you size using "Set by Critical Zone" the system OA will be greater
> than the sum of the zone OA requirements to compensate for the diversity in
> the OA requirements of the zones.
>
>
>
> Kamel Haddad
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy Poling
> *Sent:* March 30, 2011 12:38
> *To:* brians at murraypc.com; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Modeling DOAS with a dummy zone
>
> Brian,
>
>
>
> First: here’s what the help file says about how the system comes up with
> OSA flows:
>
>
>
> *OA-FROM**-SYSTEM*
>
> Takes the U-name of the system that supplies dehumidified make-up air
> either directly, or through the corridor, to apartments or hotel rooms. Make
> sure that minimum outside air of a make-up air system assigned to the
> corridor matches the sum of the minimum outside air flow rate of the
> apartments or hotel rooms. In the input, define the make-up air system prior
> to the apartment or hotel room system. Several Error and Warning messages
> are present to prevent incorrect simulations and only simple sizing
> calculations are available for OA-FROM-SYSTEM referenced SYSTEMs. In
> previous versions of DOE-2.2 (before 44c) and 2.1E, if a SYSTEM had an
> OA-FROM-SYSTEM specified, the referencing SYSTEM value for MIN-OUTSIDE-AIR
> was reset to the MIN-OUTSIDE-AIR of the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM; this
> has been removed and replaced with the action as described next. The sum of
> the OA requirements for all SYSTEMs that reference an OA-FROM-SYSTEM is
> used to set the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM value for MIN-OUTSIDE-AIR,
> SUPPLY-FLOW as well as adjust the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM directly
> served ZONE maximum and minimum flows for both heating and cooling.
> Additionally the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM has its calculated/specified
> cooling (total and sensible), heating, and preheat capacities adjusted if
> its SUPPLY-FLOW was increased. If the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM and its
> ZONEs have sufficient minimum OA specified (greater than that required by
> the referencing SYSTEMs) no adjustments are made. If any adjustments are
> made a warning is issued that informs the user of the adjustments and
> recommends the project be re-run with the values in the input corrected.
> Also, errors are issued (and the simulation terminated) if the referenced
> OA-FROM-SYSTEM is either an incorrect type (a zonal system or a system
> that cannot have outside air) or the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM is not
> placed into the input file before all referencing SYSTEMs.
>
>
>
>
>
> There could also be a couple of places causing the system OSA to exceed the
> sum of the zone OSA for each system, depending on how you set the model up:
>
>
>
> - If your project has a specified elevation greater than 0 then
> eQuest will be correcting airflows for elevation. ASHRAE Fundamentals
> directs that if you’re less than 1,000 ft above sea level you can usually
> ignore elevation effects on CFM values, therefore if that applies you can
> zero out that value (see below)
>
>
>
>
>
> - If you’re looking at the proposed model, make sure you don’t have
> any sizing factors in place for the system (unless you intend to run the
> calculations that way).
>
>
>
>
>
> *Jeremy R. Poling, PE, LEED AP+BDC*
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Brian Smith
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 30, 2011 11:13 AM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] Modeling DOAS with a dummy zone
>
>
>
> Thanks for your replays to my email, it was very much appreciated. I tried
> modeling the doas system with a dummy zone and OA from system. While looking
> at my Air side reports I found that the DOAS system OSA equaled the sum OSA
> from each zone in each system (fine that’s logical). But each system has its
> own OSA total which is larger than the sum of OSA requirements of its zones
> (not sure why). Whether I model a doas dummy or not the individual system
> still require the same amount of OSA. Therefore with the dummy air totals
> added to the system air totals my building needs more OSA and consumes more
> BTU’s. Not sure what all this means but It would seem bad? Any insights,
> does this sound right? This makes me think if I could eliminate this Dummy
> Doas system and zones, and work in the components of DOAS into the other
> systems I would at least find a different result, but right?
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Brian Smith, Mechanical Design Engineer
>
> Murray & Associates, P.C.
>
> T/907.780.6151 F/907.780.6182
>
> www.murraypc.com
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: vipulbabriya at aol.com
> To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:09:11 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: [Equest-users] Actual daily weather data for year 2005 to 2010
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am looking for actual daily weather data for US locations. Before it was
> publicly available on this web site:
> 1.
> 1.
> http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/weatherdata_download.cfm
>
> I I am wondering whether they have stopped updating or moved to the
> different location.
>
> Thank you very much for help.
>
>
> Vipul
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ashu Gupta <agupta at enernoc.com>
> To: "vipulbabriya at aol.com" <vipulbabriya at aol.com>
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:14:29 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Actual daily weather data for year 2005 to 2010
>
> *Hey Vipul,*
>
> * *
>
> *You can download US weather files from here. I think you were on
> different link.*
>
> * *
>
> *
> http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/cfm/weather_data3.cfm/region=4_north_and_central_america_wmo_region_4/country=1_usa/cname=USA
> *
>
> * *
>
> *Thanks!*
>
> *Ashu*
>
> * *
>
> *Ashu Gupta – Project Engineer, Energy Services*
>
> *EnerNOC, Inc. | 2300 Clayton Rd., S480 | Concord, CA 94520*
>
> *m: 925.775.8254 | O: 925.826.1618*
>
> *agupta at enernoc.com | www.enernoc.com*
>
> *EnerNOC - get more from energy*
>
> *ü** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.e***
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *
> vipulbabriya at aol.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 30, 2011 1:09 PM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] Actual daily weather data for year 2005 to 2010
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am looking for actual daily weather data for US locations. Before it was
> publicly available on this web site:
>
> 1.
>
> 1.
> http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/weatherdata_download.cfm
>
>
>
> I I am wondering whether they have stopped updating or moved to the
> different location.
>
>
>
> Thank you very much for help.
>
>
>
>
>
> Vipul
>
> This email and any information disclosed in connection herewith, whether
> written or oral, is the property of EnerNOC, Inc. and is intended only for
> the person or entity to which it is addressed. This email may contain
> information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from
> disclosure. Distributing or copying any information contained in this email
> to anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Equest-users mailing list
> Equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
>
>
--
Morteza Kasmai
Architect, LEED® AP
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