[Equest-users] Green Roof - eQuest style

[Karen Walkerman]

Nick,

I used eQuest intensively for a time and recently moved most of my modeling
to EnergyPlus.  In addition to having more capabilities and being more
flexible, EnergyPlus gets regular updates and bug fixes.  EnergyPlus is
also a total bear, runs slowly compared to eQuest and doesn't have a fully
functional user interface.  I wouldn't recommend it to everybody.

eQuest is very good at modeling buildings that use fairly normal
constructions with fairly normal HVAC systems.  I have run into problems
when modeling water to water heat pumps, central ventilation systems (with
heat recovery), high thermal mass buildings, and dessicant wheels, to name
a few.  While I've run into problems with EnergyPlus, I've either been able
to resolve the issue with help from the EnergyPlus helpdesk, or, when my
issue illuminated an underlying problem with source code, a bug fix was
incorporated into the next version.

I understand that eQuest/DOE2 is not receiving funding for updates and bug
fixes of eQuest.  A few years ago I tried to start a conversation around
updates, bug fixes and feature improvements, and also suggested that we in
the modeling community fund some of this effort.  There were quite a bit of
responses from users to the "modeling wishlist," but few if any responses
to the funding idea.

To extend your carpentry analysis, I think that the eQuest community needs
to face the fact that the eQuest saw just isn't capable of cutting some of
the species of wood coming into the shop these days.

--
Karen

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 7:03 PM, Nick Caton <ncaton at smithboucher.com> wrote:

>  Jeremiah,****
>
> ** **
>
> While dumping eQuest entirely and (re?)starting a project using different
> software may certainly be a viable solution, I think it’s reasonable to
> assume someone posting a “how do I do this in eQuest” question in forum
> titled [Equest-users] is probably not looking for such answers first!  I
> personally understand EnergyPlus is often the tool-of-choice for green-roof
> specific research, but let’s avoid telling a carpenter to throw away his
> hand saw just because power tools exist ;).****
>
> ** **
>
> John,****
>
> ** **
>
> eQuest can certainly *approximate* green roofs, to varying degrees of
> accuracy.  There were a couple long, informative, and unfortunately
> disjointed conversations on this exact topic held over the [bldg-sim] list
> some time ago.  I’m attaching those messages including various attachments
> and white papers here in a zip file – if you can move these into a folder
> in outlook or similar you may find it easier to follow the flow of the
> conversation...****
>
> ** **
>
> Read up on what’s been discussed so far, and I’m certain you’ll be able to
> decide for yourself how comfortable you are using eQuest for your current
> project ;).  ****
>
> ** **
>
> Regards,****
>
> ** **
>
> ~Nick****
>
> [image: cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB]**
>
> * *
>
> *NICK CATON, P.E.***
>
> SENIOR ENGINEER****
>
> ** **
>
> Smith & Boucher Engineers****
>
> 25501 west valley parkway, suite 200****
>
> olathe, ks 66061****
>
> direct 913.344.0036****
>
> fax 913.345.0617****
>
> www.smithboucher.com* *****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Nathan Miller
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 01, 2012 10:18 AM
> *To:* 'CleanTech Analytics'; 'John Aulbach'
>
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Green Roof - eQuest style****
>
>  ** **
>
> I suppose there is probably some benefit to a green roof, but I’ve never
> tried to claim credit for it. ****
>
> ** **
>
> At least in Seattle’s damp climate, when you would most benefit from the
> additional insulation of a green-roof-layer (winter) is the same time of
> the year the growth medium will be saturated, and likely provide you with
> the least insulative value. In the summer, when you would actually want the
> heat to escape, the medium will dry out (unless you are irrigating it). **
> **
>
> ** **
>
> Soil has an insulative value of only around R-0.104/in (at least according
> to a table in the Seattle Energy Code), so even ignoring moisture levels,
> it doesn’t seem like there is much benefit there. ****
>
> ** **
>
> I suppose in a heavy cooling climate the reflectivity of the plants might
> get you some benefit, as well as the evaportative cooling effect if you are
> irrigating. Is that where the credit would be? Is there a thermal mass
> benefit?****
>
> ** **
>
> *Nathan Miller, PE, LEED AP BD+C*
>
> *Mechanical Engineer/Senior Energy Analyst*
>
> *O *206-285-7100 | *D* 206-788-4577****
>
> *www.rushingco.com* <http://www.rushingco.com/>****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [
> mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *CleanTech Analytics
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 01, 2012 7:08 AM
> *To:* John Aulbach
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Green Roof - eQuest style****
>
> ** **
>
> John,****
>
> I advise you to use a more modern software that has the ability to
> correctly simulate the effects of a Green Roof rather then some wacky
> eQuest work around. Professor David Sailor of Portland
> State University developed the Green Roof object for Energy Plus that uses
> a a finite difference algorithm and works well. The problem with eQuest/DOE2
> is that it is based on a conduction transfer algorithm, and can not really
> emulate the effects of a Green Roof. If you need the easy to use inputs, I
> suggest Design Builder to generate the Energy Plus file. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Best of luck, and feel free to ask if you need more about EP/DB..****
>
> ** **
>
> On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 6:04 AM, John Aulbach <jra_sac at yahoo.com> wrote:***
> *
>
> OK, my fellow Raiders of the Lost BTU..
>
> What would be your advice for developing a green roof in eQuest? I am sure
> some of you have gone through the USGBC with hopes of getting this approved.
>
> I eagerly await your suggestions with thanks.
>
> John Aulbach
> Partner Energy****
>
>
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>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> -- ****
>
> *Jeremiah D. Crossett*****
>
> *CleanTech Analytics*****
>
> *503-688-8951*****
>
> *www.cleantechanalytics.com* <http://www.cleantechanalytics.com>****
>
> ** **
>
> ****
>
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