[Equest-users] Modeling site obstructions for EAp2c1

[Cam Fitzgerald]

Good morning, all,

 

The ASHRAE User's Manuals are generally well accepted supplements to the
standards and should be uses as long as its guidance does not directly
contradict the standard or official guidance offered by GBCI in the form of
interpretations. You should look at ASHRAE 90.1-2010. I believe a new
section to Table G3.1 (#14) which describes the modeling protocol for
shading from site features. I am not certain if this was an addendum item
for 90.1-2007. If it is, you should indicate which addendum you are
applying. If not, you should just indicate what guidance you are following
and cite the more recent version of the standard. If you follow this
guidance you should be fine.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

Cam Fitzgerald

 

Energy Opportunities/a 7group company

 

 

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Nick Caton
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:55 PM
To: Demba Ndiaye; Arpan Bakshi
Cc: equest-users
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Modeling site obstructions for EAp2c1

 

Arpan & others:

 

In my experiences with the LEED reviewership (your mileage may vary), I have
found the User's manual to be at least as solid a source for citation as the
90.1 Standard itself, for a variety of topics.  If I recall correctly,
reviewers have in fact cited the User's Manual on occasion within their
commentary.  

 

I have not as of yet attempted modeling adjacent buildings or other
permanent shading elements for  a LEED submission, but it seems the User's
Manual is clear enough:  model any such remote shading sources identically
in both models, if at all.  An extra nuance to consider however is how you
handle the baseline rotations (assuming LEED-NC here) in regards to those
exterior elements.  I would be sure to touch on that for your EAp2
documentation.  Intuitively, I would expect such elements should not rotate
with the building, in the spirit of substantiating the "site orientation"
decision-making, which may (or may not) require some additional legwork
beyond the usual simple baseline parametric runs.

 

IF such shading demonstrates a legitimate improvement in the proposed design
relative to the baseline averages (I wouldn't count on it for all cases),
AND the shading sources in question are at least as permanent as the
building itself (i.e. other buildings, a sheer cliff face, etc.  - something
more transient like trees/foliage I would feel dubious about) I'd give it a
shot, with care to document your procedure very clearly, including the
User's Manual citation.

 

Worst case scenario:  Reviewer tells you to remove them in their technical
advice - live & learn (and let us know!) ;)

 

Regards,

 

~Nick

cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB

 

NICK CATON, P.E.

SENIOR ENGINEER

 

Smith & Boucher Engineers

25501 west valley parkway, suite 200

olathe, ks 66061

direct 913.344.0036

fax 913.345.0617

www.smithboucher.com 

 

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Demba
Ndiaye
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 3:19 PM
To: Arpan Bakshi
Cc: equest-users
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Modeling site obstructions for EAp2c1

 

Arpan, 

 

The User's Manual seeks to explain the intent of the Standard. I see no
wording related to neighboring buildings in the applicable sections of the
Standard, meaning it does not regulate this aspect, and consequently the
Baseline should not be penalized if deciding to model neighboring building
effects.

 

 

From: Arpan Bakshi [mailto:arpanbakshi at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:27 PM
To: Demba Ndiaye
Cc: equest-users
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Modeling site obstructions for EAp2c1

 

 

Demba, unfortunately, the User's Manual cannot be used as the word of the
rating authority. It would need to be cited somewhere in the Standard, or in
a ruling by the GBCI.

 




 

Arpan Bakshi    LEED AP BD+C, ESTIDAMA PQP

 

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 2:25 PM, Demba Ndiaye <Demba.Ndiaye at setty.com>
wrote:

Arpan, 

 

The 90.1-2007 User's Manual clearly states (page G-15): 

 

"Shading of the building by surrounding structures and topography should be
modeled identically in both the proposed and baseline buildings."

 

Which confirms what you have grasped.

 

Regards,

 

 




S&A LogoDemba Ndiaye, Ph.D., P.E., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP

Senior Energy Analyst/Mechanical Engineer

 

Setty & Associates, Ltd.

 

MEP Design Engineering | Project Management 

|Construction Management | Design-Build Services | Commissioning 

|3040 Williams Drive, Suite 600 | Fairfax, VA 22031 

|Voice 703.691.2115 | Fax 703.691.8084 | cell 571.830.9913 

 demba.ndiaye at setty.com | www.setty.com <http://www.setty.com/> 

 

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From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Arpan
Bakshi
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 12:53 PM
To: equest-users
Subject: [Equest-users] Modeling site obstructions for EAp2c1

 

All,

 

I have learned through informal conversations that modeling site
obstructions from (surrounding buildings) is fine by GBCI, so long as there
is consistency and the same approach is taken in both Baseline and Proposed
models, i.e. either both models include surrounding buildings, nor neither
does.

 

Is there a CIR or other reference anyone is familiar with which records this
guidance, which can be cited?

 

Thanks.




 

Arpan Bakshi    LEED AP BD+C, ESTIDAMA PQP

 

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