[Equest-users] Ground temperatures

Joe Huang yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
Thu Oct 24 19:07:28 PDT 2013
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Simge,

If you know what's happening to the ground temperatures in DOE-2, you should then know 
that they are calculated by a sine-curve equation developed by Tamami Kusuda in the early 
1980's that takes up only 10 lines of code in the DOE-2 weather packer, using default 
values for soil diffusivity and ignoring the effects of  water table, surface 
evapotranspiration, or geothermal anomalies.  In other words, these ground temperatures 
are extremely approximate.

Joe

Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
Moraga CA 94556
yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com for simulation-ready weather data
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"


On 10/24/2013 6:45 PM, Simge Andolsun wrote:
> Kapil hi! :) Great to hear from you!
> Dear Joe and Nick,
>
> Thanks for all your responses.
>
> I actually know what's happening to the ground temperatures in DOE-2, how they are used 
> in ground heat transfer calculations and their effect on overall building energy 
> consumption. I just wanted to know how to make eQuest plot these temperatures for me. 
> Thanks to y'all, I managed to do it. But, thank you so much for responding with this 
> much detail!
>
> Best Regards,
> Simge Andolsun, PhD.
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Kapil Upadhyaya <KapilU at kirksey.com 
> <mailto:KapilU at kirksey.com>> wrote:
>
>     Simge,
>
>     Do keep in mind that in DOE2 these are fixed monthly averages used for all hours of
>     the month; these are derived by the ground reaching monthly-average outside air
>     temperature at a lag of 3 months.
>
>     Ground Temperature will have little effect on loads/energy in Houston for typical
>     buildings. If you are simulating geothermal heat exchange or radiant heating (thru
>     slab-on-grade),  then the investigation will be time worth spent.
>
>     Best,
>
>     *Kapil Upadhyaya, LEED AP*
>     Associate
>
>     *Kirksey* | Architecture
>     6909 Portwest Drive | Houston Texas 77024 |www.kirksey.com <http://www.kirksey.com>
>     o 713 426 7508 <tel:713%C2%A0426%C2%A07508> | f 713 850 7308
>     <tel:713%C2%A0850%C2%A07308> |kapilu at kirksey.com <mailto:kapilu at kirksey.com>
>
>     *2012-2013 Firm of the Year *
>     Texas Society of Architects
>
>     *From:*Nick Caton [mailto:ncaton at smithboucher.com <mailto:ncaton at smithboucher.com>]
>     *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2013 2:55 PM
>     *To:* Joe Huang; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>     <mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
>
>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Ground temperatures
>
>     I haven’t tried Joe’s suggested tool (yet), but here’s the hourly report variable
>     you’re looking for:
>
>     (Rankine conversion reference) <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankine_scale>
>
>     You get here double clicking one of the hourly report items in the component tree
>     under the “project and site” tab.  You can view the results by running the
>     simulation then either opening the resulting .csv in the project directory or
>     clicking the “hourly results” button on the top right of the “detailed results
>     viewer,” which opens the same file.  Within that file scroll to the far right to
>     check out any custom report variables you’ve included for the project.
>
>     Such an hourly report builds upon Joe’s observation – it appears the monthly ground
>     temperatures are averaged into 12 values over the year, then applied to each month
>     on an hourly basis for the simulation.  I can’t speak to whether this is a trait
>     specific to eQuest and/or the DOE-2 engine.
>
>     ~Nick
>
>     cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB**
>
>     **
>
>     *NICK CATON, P.E. *
>
>     SENIOR ENGINEER
>
>     Smith & Boucher Engineers
>
>     25501 west valley parkway, suite 200
>
>     olathe, ks 66061
>
>     direct 913.344.0036 <tel:913.344.0036>
>
>     fax 913.345.0617 <tel:913.345.0617>
>
>     www.smithboucher.com <http://www.smithboucher.com>
>
>     *From:*equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
>     <mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>
>     [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
>     <mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>] *On Behalf Of *Joe Huang
>     *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2013 2:18 PM
>     *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org <mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Ground temperatures
>
>     Correction to previous e-mail, meant to say
>
>     "By the way, I think that DOE-2 should do some smoothing or interpolation of the
>     monthly ground temperatures; right now if you look at ..."
>
>     Joe
>
>     Joe Huang
>
>     White Box Technologies, Inc.
>
>     346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
>
>     Moraga CA 94556
>
>     yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com  <mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>     
>
>     http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com  for simulation-ready weather data
>
>     (o)(925)388-0265  <tel:%28925%29388-0265>     
>
>     (c)(510)928-2683  <tel:%28510%29928-2683>     
>
>     "building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>
>
>     On 10/24/2013 12:15 PM, Joe Huang wrote:
>
>     In my opinion, the easiest way to get the ground temperatures would not be through
>     DOE-2 Hourly Reports, although I'm sure that can be done, but by reading them from
>     the weather file using the WTHFMT2 utility program that converts the file from
>     binary to text.  There are just 12 numbers for monthly ground temperatures, shown on
>     line 2 of the *.FMT files.  By the way, I think that DOE-2 does some smoothing or
>     interpolation of the monthly ground temperatures; right now if you look at the
>     hourly heat transfer through Underground walls or floors, you'll see a wierd
>     staircase effect with the same load for a whole month, and then a jump to a
>     different load the next month, etc.
>
>     Joe
>
>     Joe Huang
>
>     White Box Technologies, Inc.
>
>     346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
>
>     Moraga CA 94556
>
>     yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com  <mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>     
>
>     http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com  for simulation-ready weather data
>
>     (o)(925)388-0265  <tel:%28925%29388-0265>     
>
>     (c)(510)928-2683  <tel:%28510%29928-2683>     
>
>     "building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>
>
>     On 10/24/2013 11:05 AM, Simge Andolsun wrote:
>
>     Dear eQuest Users,
>
>     Would you please let me know which report would give me the deep ground temperatures
>     used in ground heat transfer calculations of eQuest? I used to select an hourly
>     report variable to make DOE-2.1e report these values, but I am not sure how to get
>     these values from eQuest. Would you help me with this?
>
>     Thank you very much in advance for your help,
>
>     Best Regards,
>
>     Simge Andolsun, PhD.
>
>            
>
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