[Equest-users] ASHRAE 90.1 Baseline generalization

[Nick Caton]

Paul's response touches on what I think is perhaps is the largest variable in play:  90.1 baseline models depend heavily on a specific Proposed design.  Ventilation, occupancy scheduling, process loads, WWR, utility costs, and so on and so on.  Each of these can throw a large wrench into deciding whether one baseline system or another performs best.

You can perform the study you've described, but the results only begin to become fairly useful when the study is built around a specific proposed design, even if only for reference.

[cid:489575314 at 22072009-0ABB]

NICK CATON, P.E.
SENIOR ENGINEER

Smith & Boucher Engineers
25501 west valley parkway, suite 200
olathe, ks 66061
direct 913.344.0036
fax 913.345.0617
www.smithboucher.com

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Paul Erickson
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 11:50 AM
To: Stormy L. Shanks; Bishop, Bill; Ryan Black; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] ASHRAE 90.1 Baseline generalization

Ryan,

I'd second Stormy's suggestion of looking at the PNNL models, just note that some, such as the healthcare model, are simplified and may not fully characterize more typical 90.1 modeling results.  You will likely see that systems will range in performance based on type of building.  Also, as you may already appreciate, climate zone plays a huge role.  The same lab or hospital model in Seattle, Chicago, and Miami can easily range in performance from 50-500 kBtu/sf-yr depending on types of systems and ventilation requirements.

Paul

Paul Erickson  LEED(r)BD+C
Practice leader Sustainable



AEI | AFFILIATED ENGINEERS, INC.
5802 Research Park Boulevard | Madison, WI  53719

P: 608.236.1112 | C: 303.859.7523
perickson at aeieng.com<mailto:perickson at aeieng.com>  |  www.aeieng.com<http://www.aeieng.com/>


From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Stormy L. Shanks
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 11:33 AM
To: Bishop, Bill; Ryan Black; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] ASHRAE 90.1 Baseline generalization

Ryan,

I don't disagree with you or Bill that this is hard to pin down, and the effort probably wouldn't result in extremely valuable results. But, here's a link to a collection of 90.1 prototype building models and scorecards created by PNNL: http://www.energycodes.gov/development/commercial/90.1_models. Maybe it would help you gain a better intuition about the EUI for different types of 90.1 baseline buildings.

Stormy

[cid:image001.png at 01CE0924.38506AB0]

Stormy L. Shanks, PE
Mechanical Engineer

2882 106th St, Des Moines, IA 50322




From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Bishop, Bill
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 11:00 AM
To: Ryan Black; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] ASHRAE 90.1 Baseline generalization

Ryan,
I drive a 2005 Civic Hybrid, 5-spd manual. My boss drives an Audi A4 1.8t. How much gas do we each use per year?
Yes, you are right in your thinking.

Regards,
Bill

William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, LEED AP | Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP
Senior Energy Engineer

134 South Fitzhugh Street                 Rochester, NY 14608
T: (585) 325-6004 Ext. 114            F: (585) 325-6005
bbishop at pathfinder-ea.com<mailto:wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com>           www.pathfinder-ea.com<http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/>
P   Sustainability - the forest AND the trees. P

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Black
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 10:47 AM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: [Equest-users] ASHRAE 90.1 Baseline generalization

This isn't so much an eQuest question, as an ASHRAE 90.1 Baseline question. I have been tasked with producing a general Btu/sq ft or kWh/sq ft for an ASHRAE 90.1-2007 Baseline building for the given system types. My thought is that this is not really possible to nail down to one number or even an accurate range, as it depends heavily on building usage type. Scheduling and occupancy are going to affect equipment capacities, ventilation rates (and thus heating and cooling), and overall energy usage. Am I right in my thinking, or is there a way to get around building type to get that flat energy/sq ft for the different systems?

Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Ryan

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