[Equest-users] Section 179D Question

[Tom Mickley]

Here’s an odd one.  The building that I was talking about has four 30 ton rooftop units that were never used for cooling from the get go.  They only used the air rotation unit for heating in the winter.  They reversed all the rooftop units fan flow to the warehouse/manufacturing areas and opened all the dock doors during the summer months.  They essentially turned the rooftop units into a terribly inefficient exhaust fan to create a cool breeze for the workers in the summer time.  A good portion of their electric consumption in the summer is due to the rooftop unit supply fans (now exhaust) running constantly and I believe off the top of my head that they are each 20 or 25hp motors.  I was proposing to add sidewall prop fans on VFDs based on temperature and interlocked with louvers on the opposite side of the warehouse that would cut the fan power usage by about %70 and replacing that air rotation unit with several radiant tube heater vacuum systems.  I originally modeled the building as is because I wasn’t going to try for the Section 179D, and was saving about 30% of their total utility costs.  Could I add exhaust fans to the warehouse to recreate the rooftop units they converted even though it doesn’t show it on the prints If I were to model this as an ASHRAE 90.1 2001 baseline?

Thanks,

Tom Mickley
Mechanical Engineer CEM
The K Company
Cell 330-760-3994
Office 330-773-5125

From: Steve Jacobs [mailto:sjacobseng at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 11:38 AM
To: Daniel Knapp
Cc: Busby, Aaron; Tom Mickley; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Section 179D Question

I've used this approach in the past. Appendix G requires the schedules to be the same, and where no cooling systems exist you need to model it the same as the proposed. The NREL guidelines say you can use the " [schedule of the] taxpayer’s building if they are known (see Section 3.6)." If a building has no cooling setpoint it is not unreasonable to interpret a no cooling setpoint as a high cooling setpoint. A large heated warehouse will have most its energy use in fans, lighting, and heat (depending on the heating setpoint). I don't think you would be gaming the system at all to have your model be consistent with the actual energy profile of the building.

- Steve

On 4/25/2014 8:45 AM, Daniel Knapp wrote:
This requirement of adding cooling where it is not designed is an odd one to be sure.  A possible workaround is to recognize that the proposed building will have a cooling "setpoint" that is higher than usual and to model the proposed and baseline cooling systems with an equally high cooling setpoint.

Dan

—
Sent from my phone

On Apr 25, 2014, at 10:32 AM, Steve Jacobs <sjacobseng at gmail.com<mailto:sjacobseng at gmail.com>> wrote:
I'm not aware of anything says we can or can't use addendum to Appendix G. It is certainly frustrating not having anywhere to take questions. The inability for modelers to seek clarifications means that the community is probably taking a lot of different approaches to the incentive.



On 4/25/2014 6:56 AM, Busby, Aaron wrote:
ASHRAE 90.1 has several addendums now that have added system types, just for warehouse type spaces where they are heated only.  Look for Addenda DN, system types 10 and 11.

Aaron Busby, PE,  LEED AP
Tel:  770.563.1522
Cell: 678.642.7549


From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Tom Mickley
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 8:38 AM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: [Equest-users] Section 179D Question

Has anyone run a baseline building for a retrofit building to qualify a business owner for the Section 179D tax deduction?  It seems simple enough to model the existing building based on ASHRAE 90.1 standards.  Has anyone found any potential “hiccups” along the way that has prevented the up to $1.80/sq tax deduction aside from the obvious of not meeting the energy upgrade percentage?

Here’s my main concern.  I have a cabinet manufacturer customer who has a 100,000sf metal building that is roughly 30% wood working or manufacturing, 65% warehouse storage and 5% office space.  95% of this facility is heated only.  Do I have to include cooling in the baseline from ASHRAE 90.1 system 5 on appendix G, table G3.1.1.A?  The only upgrades we are proposing are to take out the air rotation unit and radiant tube vacuum systems and a few other minor items.

Any advice would help.  Thanks in advance.

Thanks,

Tom Mickley
Mechanical Engineer CEM
The K Company
Cell 330-760-3994
Office 330-773-5125





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