[Hap-users] LEED modeling for space served by RTU and SSAC

[Matthew Scott]

Thanks. I am going to go with option 2. Just wanted another opinion to
confirm it was an acceptable practice. 

 

Matt Scott

N.E. Fisher & Associates, Inc.

329 East Second St, 2nd Flr

Boyertown, PA 19512

e: mscott at nefisher.com

p: 610-369-3190

f: 610-369-3194

 

From: Adam.Boyd at ch2m.com [mailto:Adam.Boyd at ch2m.com] 
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 11:45 AM
To: Matthew Scott
Cc: hap-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: LEED modeling for space served by RTU and SSAC

 

Create a dummy space of 1 sq ft that is for the ventilation. Then use a
separate small AC system on the actual space with all the loads. You may
end up with some unmet load hours on the dummy space that will need
explaining to LEED, but I've had this approach approved several times
with HAP. 

 

Because the ventilation rate is so small, another option would be to put
the 40 cfm to another space, or split it among several spaces. This will
likely have no measurable effect on system performance, but still
captures the correct overall CFM of the unit. Then serve the AV room
with a separate system.

Adam T. Boyd PE*

CH2M HILL
1100 NE Circle Blvd.
Building 10, Suite 300
Corvallis, OR 97330
Direct 541.768.3355
www.ch2mhill.com <http://www.ch2mhill.com/> 

* CA, OR

 

 

 

From: hap-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:hap-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Matthew
Scott
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 6:11 AM
To: Systems, Software CCS
Cc: hap-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Hap-users] LEED modeling for space served by RTU and SSAC

 

Sorry I wasn't clear. The equipment is actually already sized and
selected. I'm just looking for a good way to include the setup in my
building simulation for LEED. You're right; the ventilation load is
being neutralized by the RTU, but somehow I need to account for both
that energy required to neutralize the ventilation air and then also the
energy required to cool the space, but split between the two systems
that are handling each component of the load. Is the way I am modeling
this situation acceptable or is there a better way to do it? Or am I
missing something and it's completely off base?

 

Ideally HAP would allow me to specify how much CFM that specific space
gets  (as well as all of the other spaces supplied by the system) and
then choose an auxiliary cooling unit for just that space to cover the
internal heat gain, kind of analogous to selecting a zone heating unit.
Just a suggestion for future HAP features. J

 

Thanks,

 

Matt Scott

N.E. Fisher & Associates, Inc.

329 East Second St, 2nd Flr

Boyertown, PA 19512

e: mscott at nefisher.com

p: 610-369-3190

f: 610-369-3194

 

From: Systems, Software CCS [mailto:Software.Systems at carrier.utc.com] 
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 8:46 AM
To: Matthew Scott
Subject: LEED modeling for space served by RTU and SSAC

 

HELLO SEE MY INPUTS IN ALL CAPS PLEASE...  HOPE THIS HELPS..

 

Robert Feduik, P.E. LEED BD&C  | East Regional Software Manager |
Carrier Corporation 
Software.systems at carrier.utc.com

 

From: hap-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:hap-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Matthew
Scott
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 5:54 PM
To: hap-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [External] [Hap-users] LEED modeling for space served by RTU
and SSAC

 

I have an AV equipment room with virtually no envelope loss, but a
steady internal heat gain. The space is receiving 40 cfm of from an RTU
VAV system to fulfill the ventilation requirement of the space, but then
the actual cooling is being handled by a dedicated split system air
conditioner.

 

SO THE VENTILATION LOAD IS BEING "NEUTRALIZED" BY ANOTHER UNIT...SO IT
IS TAKEN OUT OF THE EQUATION....SO CANT WE JUST FORGET ABOUT IT?   DO WE
ONLY CARE ABOUT SIZING THE SPLIT SYSTEM? ARE YOU RUNNING AN OPCOST ON
ONE OR BOTH?

 

My thought is to model two separate systems as follows:

 

RTU for ventilation:

Input the space minus the internal equipment heat gain and add it to the
relevant zone on the RTU. 

 

Dedicated SSAC:

Input a "duplicate" of the space except make it only 1-sqft in area as
to not greatly add to the modeled square footage of the building, and
only include the internal equipment load, and not the envelope, lighting
or people inputs.  

 

Thoughts?

 

Matt Scott

N.E. Fisher & Associates, Inc.

329 East Second St, 2nd Flr

Boyertown, PA 19512

e: mscott at nefisher.com

p: 610-369-3190

f: 610-369-3194

 

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