[Trace-users] Part load conditions

Houcine Tlemsani houcine at mepengsolutions.com
Thu Jan 24 10:52:42 PST 2013
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A diligent engineer should know if the calcs are performed correctly by
performing back-checks.

Trace calcs are as good as the data that was interred.  That's why
back-checking all the outputs is a must.

Never take software outputs for granted.

My point is that the trace output is accepted by leed reviewer as long
as it's done correctly.

 

 

Houcine Tlemsani

Mechanical Designer

MEP Engineering Solutions

houcine at mepengsolutions.com

Phone:  850.429.8288

Fax: 850.429.8334

 

________________________________

From: Duncan S. McClellan [mailto:dmcclellan at ClarkNexsen.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 12:44 PM
To: Houcine Tlemsani; Caballero, Catalina; Scott Parker;
trace-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Cc: Varghese, Saju
Subject: RE: [Trace-users] Part load conditions

 

Here is a spreadsheet that can be used to back-check the software.

 

 

 

From: trace-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:trace-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Duncan
S. McClellan
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 1:36 PM
To: Houcine Tlemsani; Caballero, Catalina; Scott Parker;
trace-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Cc: Varghese, Saju
Subject: Re: [Trace-users] Part load conditions

 

A diligent engineer should know if the calcs are performed correctly by
performing back-checks.  You shouldn't depend on a LEED reviewer to
determine the accuracy of your methodologies.  The fan power calcs are
not always right.   Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.  If want
to be sure, always back-check via hand calcs.  Scott's comment regarding
"kW/cfm" is very important.  Don't input anything as "horsepower".  If
you enter a 10hp fan, you're going to get a 10kW fan.  It's not a unit
display issue, it's actually using 10kW.  Motor efficiency is already
included in the Appendix G calc if you are performing it correctly. Here
is a message I received from CDS several years ago regarding Horsepower
units:

 

Duncan,

 

You're right.  3 HP does not equal 3 kW however when you select units of
HP in TRACE, the program automatically assumes 75% efficiency and that
75% basically cancels the conversion between HP and kW (0.746).

 

Eric Sturm

CDS Marketing Engineer

Trane Commercial Systems

Ingersoll Rand

3600 Pammel Creek Rd

La Crosse, WI 54601

 

Office:  +1.608.787.3926

Fax:  +1.608.787.3005

Email:  cdshelp at trane.com <mailto:cdshelp at trane.com> 

Website:  www.tranecds.com <http://www.tranecds.com/> 

 

 

Duncan McClellan PE, BEMP, LEED AP
Mechanical Engineer

CLARK NEXSEN 
Architecture & Engineering
6160 Kempsville Circle Suite 200A
Norfolk, VA 23502
757.455.5800 Office
757.455.5638 Fax
dmcclellan at clarknexsen.com <mailto:dmcclellan at clarknexsen.com>  
www.clarknexsen.com <http://www.clarknexsen.com%20> 

 

 

 

From: trace-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [
mailto:trace-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Houcine
Tlemsani
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 12:31 PM
To: Caballero, Catalina; Scott Parker; trace-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Cc: Varghese, Saju
Subject: Re: [Trace-users] Part load conditions

 

To All 

 

We have submitted the trace report fan power calcs to LEED on multiple
jobs and we had no problems.

The calcs are accurate.

 

Houcine Tlemsani

Mechanical Designer

MEP Engineering Solutions

houcine at mepengsolutions.com

Phone:  850.429.8288

Fax: 850.429.8334

 

________________________________

From: trace-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [
mailto:trace-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of
Caballero, Catalina
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 8:44 AM
To: 'Scott Parker'; trace-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Cc: Varghese, Saju
Subject: Re: [Trace-users] Part load conditions

 

Scott,

 

What we have seen is that the Trace700 PRM Sizing works correctly  and
you just need to submit the PRM report but I don't know if that
particular requirement for  G3.1.3.15 Part 2 can be done using it.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Catalina Caballero, AIA. Assoc., LEED GA.

Johnson, Avedano, Lopez, Rodriguez & Walewski
Engineering Group, Inc. 

2510 NW 97th Avenue, Suite 220, Miami, Florida 33172

Tel. (305) 594-0660 Ext. 217 Fax (305) 594-0907

Visit us online: www.jalrw.com <http://www.jalrw.com/> 

 

 

HVAC - Electrical - Plumbing - Fire Protection
Sustainable Development - Commissioning

    

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they
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advised that you have received this email in error and that any use,
dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email is
strictly prohibited.

 

 

 

 

From: Scott Parker [mailto:sparker at aeieng.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 9:15 AM
To: Caballero, Catalina; trace-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: Part load conditions

 

Catalina,

 

I would guess that you are working on a LEED project.  From my
experience the LEED reviewer will not accept the automatic fan
calculation within Trace.  You need to manually calculate the maximum
break HP for each fan for the baseline systems.  I recommend putting
them in units of kW/CFM.  You will need to manually do the fan power
calculations according to 90.1 and adjust for any "allowances" per 90.1.
Please don't use the Full Load Energy Rate numbers I have used.  You'll
need to calculate these for your specific conditions per 90.1
requirements.

 

Scott

 

From: Caballero, Catalina [mailto:ccaballero at jalrw.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 9:03 AM
To: Scott Parker; trace-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: Part load conditions

 

Can the software calculate it automatically with the following feature
on?

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Catalina

 

From: Scott Parker [mailto:sparker at aeieng.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 9:01 AM
To: Caballero, Catalina; trace-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: Part load conditions

 

Catalina,

 

You can define a custom fan curve based on the 90.1 cubic equation, but
I would recommend that you use the 90.1 fan curve library member that
comes with the program.  The curve is the same for 2004 and 2007
versions of 90.1.

 

  

Scott

 

From: trace-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [
mailto:trace-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of
Caballero, Catalina
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 8:53 AM
To: trace-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Trace-users] Part load conditions

 

Hi all,

 

How do you show this method on Trace 700 for System 6?

 

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

Catalina Caballero, AIA. Assoc., LEED GA.

Johnson, Avedano, Lopez, Rodriguez & Walewski
Engineering Group, Inc. 

2510 NW 97th Avenue, Suite 220, Miami, Florida 33172

Tel. (305) 594-0660 Ext. 217 Fax (305) 594-0907

Visit us online: www.jalrw.com <http://www.jalrw.com/> 

 



HVAC - Electrical - Plumbing - Fire Protection
Sustainable Development - Commissioning

    

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they
are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or the person
responsible for delivering the email to the intended recipient, be
advised that you have received this email in error and that any use,
dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email is
strictly prohibited.

 

 



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