[TRNSYS-users] Heat Recovery ventilation system

王洋 wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com
Mon Oct 15 01:27:09 PDT 2012
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Dear Jeff,

Many thanks for your reply!

You can use a sensible heat exchanger model and a series of equations and
Type 33 psychrometrics models - but this gets pretty tricky - especially if
condensation occurs.  Nothing is horribly difficult in modeling these
systems but using a model which accounts for all of the possibilities will
make it a lot easier.

Could you please pass me some relative examples for Heat Recovery
ventilation system using a sensible heat exchanger model and a series of
equations and Type 33 psychrometrics models? Or please tell me where could
I find some relative examples?

Since I can not find any Examples from TRNSYS/Examples file for that. For a
beginner, it is too difficult if no examples.

Many thanks in advance!
Br.

wang



2012/10/12 <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>

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> than "Re: Contents of TRNSYS-users digest..."
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Heat Recovery ventilation system (Jeff Thornton)
>
>
> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
> From: Jeff Thornton <thornton at tess-inc.com>
> To: <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
> Cc:
> Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 12:08:55 -0500
> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Heat Recovery ventilation system
> **
>
> <Do you mean we must buy TESS HVAC Library for TRNSYS?
> Is there no other methods to model exhaust air/fresh
> air Heat Recovery Ventilation System in Simulation Studio? E.g. using Equation
> or other component/Type in Simulation studio?>
>
>
>
> You can use a sensible heat exchanger model and a series of equations and
> Type 33 psychrometrics models - but this gets pretty tricky - especially
> if condensation occurs.  Nothing is horribly difficult in modeling these
> systems but using a model which accounts for all of the possibilities will
> make it a lot easier.  Good luck with your study!
>
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Jeff Thornton
>
> *President - TESS LLC*
>
> *22 N. Carroll Street, Madison WI USA 53703*
>
> *Office: (608) 274-2577  Fax: (608) 278-1475*
>
> *www.tess-inc.com*
>
> *E-Mail: thornton at tess-inc.com*
>
>
>
> On 10/12/2012 4:13 am, 王洋 wrote:
>
>   Dear Jeff Thornton,
>
> Many thanks for your reply!
>
> Do you mean we must buy TESS HVAC Library for TRNSYS?
> Is there no other methods to model exhaust air/fresh
> air Heat Recovery Ventilation System in Simulation Studio? E.g. using Equation
> or other component/Type in Simulation studio?
>
> Many thanks in advance!
> Br.
>
> wang
>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Heat Recovery ventilation system (Jeff Thornton)
>>
>>
>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>> From: Jeff Thornton <thornton at tess-inc.com>
>> To: <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 12:09:33 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Heat Recovery ventilation system
>>
>> There are several heat recovery models in the TESS HVAC Library for
>> TRNSYS.  The general descriptions of these models may be downloaded from
>> www.TRNSYS.com by following the TESS Libraries link.
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>    1. Modifying connection line properties ? (Santeri Siren)
>>    2. Re: Modifying connection line properties ? (Angel Carrera)
>>    3. Re: Fwd: Converging error (??)
>>
>>
>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>> From: Santeri Siren <santeri.siren1 at gmail.com>
>> To: "trnsys käyttäjät" <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 12:46:29 +0300
>> Subject: [TRNSYS-users] Modifying connection line properties ?
>> Dear users,
>>
>> is there a way to modify the properties (e.g. change color or weight) of
>> multiple connection lines between components at the same time. It takes a
>> lot of time to change line properties one at a time.
>>
>> best regards,
>>
>> Santeri Siren
>>
>>
>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>> From: Angel Carrera <angel.carrera at aiguasol.coop>
>> To: Santeri Siren <santeri.siren1 at gmail.com>
>> Cc: "trnsys käyttäjät" <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 12:08:48 +0200
>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Modifying connection line properties ?
>>
>> Dear Santeri,
>>
>> right-click on a connection with the style you wish to copy and choose
>> and choose "copy style". Them, you can copy this to another line just
>> right-clicking on it and selecting "apply style"
>>
>> Angel
>>
>> *
>> 2012/10/10 Santeri Siren <santeri.siren1 at gmail.com>
>>
>>> Dear users,
>>>
>>> is there a way to modify the properties (e.g. change color or weight) of
>>> multiple connection lines between components at the same time. It takes a
>>> lot of time to change line properties one at a time.
>>>
>>> best regards,
>>>
>>> Santeri Siren
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TRNSYS-users mailing list
>>> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
>>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>>
>>>  *
>>
>>
>> --
>> Àngel Carrera
>>
>> Consultor Senior
>> Àrea tècnica
>>
>> Sistemes Avançats d'Energia Solar Tèrmica SCCL
>> C/ Roger de Llúria, 29 3r 2a 08009 Barcelona
>> Mòbil: (+34) 663 27 66 80
>> Tel: (+34) 93 342 47 55 Ext:2015
>> Fax: (+34) 93 342 47 56
>>
>> angel.carrera at aiguasol.coop
>> http://www.aiguasol.coop
>>
>>
>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>> From: 王洋 <wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com>
>> To: hotline <hotline at transsolar.com>
>> Cc: trnsys-users <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 13:37:23 +0200
>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Fwd: Converging error
>> Dear Marion,
>>
>> Many thanks for your patient reply!
>>
>> 1) I use TRNSYS 16, there is no TSGRD in TYPE 56.
>> 2) The height over sea level of Default is 0 m I used.
>> 3) You are right. I tried to use *.tm2 weather data, this Error
>> disappeared! But my Userdefined weather data is TRN/TRY weather data.
>> Why does it result in aforementioned Errors (Converging error by my past
>> emails)?
>> If I must use our own TRN/TRY weather data, how to avoid this Converging
>> error?
>> 4) Yes, The data reader Type 9 is placed after the building now for my
>> simulation., Do you mean Type 9 should be placed before the Building
>> Type 56? Is Better?
>>
>> Many thanks in advance!
>>
>> Br.
>>
>> wang
>>
>> *
>> 2012/10/10 hotline <hotline at transsolar.com>
>>
>>>     Dear Wang,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> there are several issues within your simulation concerning the outside
>>> longwave exchange of external surfaces
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1.)     You didn’t connect TSGRD such that it is set 0 =>  If you have
>>> no information set it Tamb
>>>
>>> 2.)     For Sky temperature calculation with Type 69, you forgot to
>>> enter the height above sea level.
>>>
>>> 3.)     You read the ambient temperature and the relative air humditiy
>>> from a userdefined file by type 9
>>> instead of using the data from the weather file.
>>> This file wasn’t attached, but it might be an error source especially
>>> when interpolating incorrect data.
>>> For testing, please use the ambient temperature and rel. humidity from
>>> the assigned weather file throughout your simulation.
>>> Please check your userdefined data and the outputs of Type 9 WITHOUT
>>> connecting them to TYPE 56.
>>>
>>> 4.)     In addition, please check the component order. The data reader
>>> Type 9 is placed after the building.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> *Von:* 王洋 [mailto:wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com]
>>> *Gesendet:* Montag, 8. Oktober 2012 15:31
>>> *An:* trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu; hotline
>>> *Betreff:* Fwd: Converging error
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Marion and TRNSYS Users,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your reply!
>>>
>>> I checked all you mentioned, I can't find any special/abnormal settings.
>>> Furthermore, it runs well when the time step is 1 hour. For other steps
>>> e.g. 0.1 h, 0.2 h or 0.5 h, it appears that ERROR.
>>>
>>> Please help me have a look at the attached project if you are free.
>>>
>>> Many thanks in advance!
>>>
>>> br.
>>>
>>> wang
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: *王洋* <wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com>
>>> Date: 2012/9/28
>>> Subject: Converging error
>>> To: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu, hotline at transsolar.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>>> From: "hotline" <hotline at transsolar.com>
>>> To: trnsys-users <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:02:00 +0200
>>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Converging error
>>>
>>> Wang,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This problem may occur from incorrect ambient condition settings:
>>>
>>> Please check the following inputs of Type 56
>>>
>>> 1- TAMB
>>>
>>> 2- RELHUMAMB
>>>
>>> 3- TSKY
>>>
>>> 4- TSGRD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In addition make sure that in the BUI file the surface
>>>
>>> -         outside emissitive is ≤ 1
>>>
>>> -         outside convective heat transfer coefficient ist set to
>>> reasonable value
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If the error presits, we need the complete project to give further
>>> advice.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Marion
>>>
>>> 2012/9/28 <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>
>>>
>>> Send TRNSYS-users mailing list submissions to
>>>         trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>         https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>         trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>         trnsys-users-owner at cae.wisc.edu
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of TRNSYS-users digest..."
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>    1. Re: problem with iterations?? (Matt Duffy)
>>>    2. Re: problem with iterations?? (Marion Hiller)
>>>    3. Re: Converging error (hotline)
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>>> From: Matt Duffy <duffy at tess-inc.com>
>>> To: <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:04:24 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] problem with iterations??
>>>
>>> Karol,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I noticed from your listing (*.lst) file that your working directory is
>>> located on your computer's desktop directory. This is not recommended due
>>> to the potential issues with the Windows OS system and write privleges. I
>>> would first try changing your working directory to the ".\MyProjects"
>>> directory or in a folder right on the "C:" drive. I am not certain that
>>> this is the issue with the TRNEXE, but if the problem persists, please
>>> contact your distributor, techsupport at tess-inc.com.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Matt Duffy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TRNSYS on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/TRNSYS>
>>>
>>> On 2012-09-27 03:46, Karol Bandurski wrote:
>>>
>>>   Dear All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I try to simulate dwelling with natural ventilation. I set some
>>> algorithm for window opening and ideal heating for colder part of year for
>>> each zone with set temperature depending on time of day.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When I run my yearly simulation it stop in one moment and TRNEXE is
>>> frozen... There is even no error! Then I can only turn off TRNEXE.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Only think what appear (many times) in .lst file is
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Notice: More than 6 iterations for internal regulation HEATING/COOLING.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I will be grateful for any advice!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I enclose .lst file.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Karol Bandurski MSc.
>>>
>>> Institute of Environmental Engineering <http://www.ee.put.poznan.pl/>
>>>
>>> Poznan University of Technology
>>>
>>> www.ee.put.poznan.pl
>>>
>>> www.put.poznan.pl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>>> From: "Marion Hiller" <hiller at transsolar.com>
>>> To: "karol.bandurski" <karol.bandurski at put.poznan.pl>
>>> Cc: trnsys-users <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>>> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 08:53:53 +0200
>>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] problem with iterations??
>>>
>>> Karol,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In general the notice has nothing to do with a frozen TRNEXE.exe,
>>>
>>> it is just an information.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The message indicates that the internal controller for turning on the
>>>
>>> integrated heating/cooling has convergence problems and a deadband is
>>> applied to promote convergence.
>>>
>>> This may be the case at the moment of turning ON or OFF something.
>>>
>>> After 6 internal iterations a deadband is added to promote convergence.
>>>
>>> If the convergence isn’t reached after 12 iterations a warning is
>>> written to the lst/log file.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Dipl.-Ing. **Marion Hiller **
>>> **TRANSSOLAR: KlimaEngineering - Technologien für energieeffizientes
>>> Bauen und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäude **
>>> Munich - New York - Stuttgart + 49.711.67976.0
>>>
>>> **Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse 2, 70563 Stuttgart
>>> Amtsgericht Stuttgart - HRB 23347, Steuernummer 99073/00911, USt-IdNr.:
>>> DE152272639*
>>>
>>> *Geschäftsführer: Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler, Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer,
>>> Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof. Dipl.-Ing. Bleicher *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Von:* Karol Bandurski [mailto:karol.bandurski at put.poznan.pl]
>>> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 27. September 2012 10:47
>>> *An:* trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
>>> *Betreff:* [TRNSYS-users] problem with iterations??
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I try to simulate dwelling with natural ventilation. I set some
>>> algorithm for window opening and ideal heating for colder part of year for
>>> each zone with set temperature depending on time of day.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When I run my yearly simulation it stop in one moment and TRNEXE is
>>> frozen... There is even no error! Then I can only turn off TRNEXE.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Only think what appear (many times) in .lst file is
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Notice: More than 6 iterations for internal regulation HEATING/COOLING.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I will be grateful for any advice!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I enclose .lst file.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Karol Bandurski MSc.
>>>
>>> Institute of Environmental Engineering <http://www.ee.put.poznan.pl/>
>>>
>>> Poznan University of Technology
>>>
>>> www.ee.put.poznan.pl
>>>
>>> www.put.poznan.pl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>>> From: "hotline" <hotline at transsolar.com>
>>> To: trnsys-users <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:02:00 +0200
>>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Converging error
>>>
>>> Wang,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This problem may occur from incorrect ambient condition settings:
>>>
>>> Please check the following inputs of Type 56
>>>
>>> 1- TAMB
>>>
>>> 2- RELHUMAMB
>>>
>>> 3- TSKY
>>>
>>> 4- TSGRD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In addition make sure that in the BUI file the surface
>>>
>>> -         outside emissitive is ≤ 1
>>>
>>> -         outside convective heat transfer coefficient ist set to
>>> reasonable value
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If the error presits, we need the complete project to give further
>>> advice.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Marion
>>>   ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Von:* 王洋 [mailto:wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com]
>>> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 27. September 2012 11:49
>>> *An:* trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
>>> *Betreff:* [TRNSYS-users] Converging error
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> I met a converging error when I changed simulation time step 1 hour into
>>> 0.1 hour or 0.2 hour or 0.01 hour as follows:
>>>
>>> *** Fatal Error at time   :      3972.000000
>>>     Generated by Unit     :    56
>>>     Generated by Type     :    56
>>>     Message               : outside temperature of    2(external) wall
>>> in zone   1at time  3972.00 not converged!
>>>
>>> Please tell me some possible solutions for that if you know. The
>>> attached is its Listing File.
>>>
>>> Many thanks in advance!
>>> Br.
>>>
>>> wang
>>>
>>>  2012/9/27 <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>
>>>
>>> Send TRNSYS-users mailing list submissions to
>>>         trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>         https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>         trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>         trnsys-users-owner at cae.wisc.edu
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of TRNSYS-users digest..."
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>    1. Doctoral Fellowships at TERI University, India (R.K. Singh)
>>>    2. problem with iterations?? (Karol Bandurski)
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>>> From: "R.K. Singh" <singh.ramkishore at gmail.com>
>>> To: TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 10:04:34 +0530
>>> Subject: [TRNSYS-users] Doctoral Fellowships at TERI University, India
>>>
>>> TERI University is currently inviting applications for Doctoral
>>> programmes in  Bioresources/Biotechnology;Natural Resource Management,
>>> Energy and Environment and Regulatory and Policy studies for semester
>>> starting january 2013. A range of scholarship opportunities  are also
>>> available  for the students in specific areas, the details of which can be
>>> accessed through  the following link.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://teriuniversity.ac.in/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54
>>>
>>> The last date for application is October  31st, 2012. The details
>>> regarding fee, eligibility and other requirements can be accessed through
>>> http://teriuniversity.ac.in/index.php?option=com_program
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For any further details please get in touch with Dr. Sapna A Narula,
>>> Associate Professor sapna.narula at teriuniversity.ac.in.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ***********************************************
>>> Dr. Ramkishore Singh
>>> Department of Energy & Environment
>>> TERI University
>>> Tel: 91-11-26122222, Ext. 1302
>>> Fax: 91-11-26122874
>>> Web: www.teriuniversity.ac.in
>>> ***********************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>>> From: "Karol Bandurski" <karol.bandurski at put.poznan.pl>
>>> To: <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 10:46:49 +0200
>>> Subject: [TRNSYS-users] problem with iterations??
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I try to simulate dwelling with natural ventilation. I set some
>>> algorithm for window opening and ideal heating for colder part of year for
>>> each zone with set temperature depending on time of day.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When I run my yearly simulation it stop in one moment and TRNEXE is
>>> frozen... There is even no error! Then I can only turn off TRNEXE.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Only think what appear (many times) in .lst file is
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Notice: More than 6 iterations for internal regulation HEATING/COOLING.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I will be grateful for any advice!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I enclose .lst file.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Karol Bandurski MSc.
>>>
>>> Institute of Environmental Engineering <http://www.ee.put.poznan.pl/>
>>>
>>> Poznan University of Technology
>>>
>>> www.ee.put.poznan.pl
>>>
>>> www.put.poznan.pl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TRNSYS-users mailing list
>>> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
>>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TRNSYS-users mailing list
>>> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
>>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>  *
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TRNSYS-users mailing list
>> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>
>> *
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TRNSYS-users mailing list
> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TRNSYS-users mailing list
> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
>
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