[TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS-users Digest, Vol 119, Issue 32

[Michael Stochniol]

Bridjesh and Cao, 

no sry my pump is not starting with a peak, in fact  the cotrol strategy seems to work at the moment but very rough.Controller find a working point in between but the plots still look very nervous (instable). I am no experienced user so i can only provide some poor advises but the thing with the Peak at the beginning cought be also a problem with your component order. So make shure you have a logic  order(Inputs -process -Outputs) witch in my case have taken me hours, but it improved stability.
I tryed to use Type 539 a weak ago but its conflicted with my storage (non-standard-type 340) somehow.

Cao, thanks for your advises i tryed both and experimented alot at the monemnt may Parameter 7 (Type22) is at 0.001 and number of oscilacions allowed on 5. It helped somehow but as i mentioned before still not perfect. 
I dont tryed the Valve+mixer as you told me but i will try on monday. But i am  not pretty shure how i can implement that without changing the solarloop completly.

thanks in advance
kind regards 
Michael Stochniol
                   


________________________________________
Von: bridjesh gautam [bridjeshgautam at gmail.com]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. November 2014 23:28
An: trnsys-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Betreff: Re: [TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS-users Digest, Vol 119, Issue 32

Dear Michael Stochniol,
Thank you for your question. I am having the same problem. Have you also noticed that your pump starts from the peak?
 If you can use any solar collector, you can try Type 539 solar collector which calculated mass flow-rate on its own. I know that worked for my friend.
Dear Sunliang Cao will you please elaborate on using tempering valve for this application.

Thanks
Bridjesh


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Today's Topics:

   1. type22 stability/solarloop (Michael Stochniol)
   2. Re: type22 stability/solarloop (SUNLIANG CAO)
   3. Type 15-7 (Stefan Hampel)


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Michael Stochniol <stochnio at mail.hs-ulm.de<mailto:stochnio at mail.hs-ulm.de>>
To: "trnsys-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:trnsys-users at lists.onebuilding.org>" <trnsys-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:trnsys-users at lists.onebuilding.org>>
Cc:
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 09:24:52 +0100
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] type22 stability/solarloop
Hello to all,

first thanks for the great answers to my last question, it really helped!

i am creating a SDHW -system. In order to do that i combined a variable speed pump with type22 to adjust the massflow trough the pump to reach a certain Tset tempreture from my collector.
My Type 22 has 1 as maximum output and 0.45 as minimum. everything else is on default. The set tempreture is 77 °C and the controlled Variable is the output tempreture of the flat plate collector.
Also the type 22 is combined with a differantial controller for his on/off function.

it seems that the controller has problems to find a signal inbetween min and max. most of the time it is just switching between them both. Somtimes very frequently. I tried alot to change this behavior experimenting with all the parameter in type 22 but without luck. I alsp tryed to store the controlled variable input for one timestep, or even for the output.  But nothing seems to improve the stability. the listfile tells me that the controller was stuck for 2,5% of the last simulation. Is that bad? Or normal?

I am using 1 minute time steps.  There are pipes in the loop with enough capacity.

Do someone have maybe a advise how to improve stability for the solarloop controll anyhow?

Im no experienced user, bascily everything i do is try and error.

thanks in advance

Michael Stochniol







---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: SUNLIANG CAO <caosunliang at msn.com<mailto:caosunliang at msn.com>>
To: "TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org" <trnsys-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:trnsys-users at lists.onebuilding.org>>, "stochnio at mail.hs-ulm.de<mailto:stochnio at mail.hs-ulm.de>" <stochnio at mail.hs-ulm.de<mailto:stochnio at mail.hs-ulm.de>>
Cc:
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 08:52:07 +0000
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] type22 stability/solarloop

Dear Michael,

Try the following solutions and advice:
1, Set the input 7 of type22 "Tolerance of tracking error" to for example 0.001 instead of 0
2, Set the 2nd parameter of Type 22 "Max number of oscillations" to for example 50 instead of 0

Sometimes, when the flow rate in the solar water loop is too low, Type 22 will be very difficult to converge. So also adjust the flow rate to avoid the low flow rate.


If all the above solutions fail, then maybe you can consider adjusting the configuration of your system in TRNSYS simulation and add a tempering valve+mixer to control the outlet temperature of the mixer instead of the outlet temperature of the solar collector. The algorithm of tempering valve Type 11b takes both the heat source temperature and the set-point temperature into account, which will converge better than Type 22.

Hope it helps.


Kind Regards,
Sunliang Cao


> From: stochnio at mail.hs-ulm.de<mailto:stochnio at mail.hs-ulm.de>
> To: trnsys-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:trnsys-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 09:24:52 +0100
> Subject: [TRNSYS-users] type22 stability/solarloop
>
> Hello to all,
>
> first thanks for the great answers to my last question, it really helped!
>
> i am creating a SDHW -system. In order to do that i combined a variable speed pump with type22 to adjust the massflow trough the pump to reach a certain Tset tempreture from my collector.
> My Type 22 has 1 as maximum output and 0.45 as minimum. everything else is on default. The set tempreture is 77 °C and the controlled Variable is the output tempreture of the flat plate collector.
> Also the type 22 is combined with a differantial controller for his on/off function.
>
> it seems that the controller has problems to find a signal inbetween min and max. most of the time it is just switching between them both. Somtimes very frequently. I tried alot to change this behavior experimenting with all the parameter in type 22 but without luck. I alsp tryed to store the controlled variable input for one timestep, or even for the output. But nothing seems to improve the stability. the listfile tells me that the controller was stuck for 2,5% of the last simulation. Is that bad? Or normal?
>
> I am using 1 minute time steps. There are pipes in the loop with enough capacity.
>
> Do someone have maybe a advise how to improve stability for the solarloop controll anyhow?
>
> Im no experienced user, bascily everything i do is try and error.
>
> thanks in advance
>
> Michael Stochniol
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TRNSYS-users mailing list
> TRNSYS-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:TRNSYS-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Stefan Hampel <s13d39 at umwelt-campus.de<mailto:s13d39 at umwelt-campus.de>>
To: "TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org" <trnsys-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:trnsys-users at lists.onebuilding.org>>
Cc:
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 14:03:23 +0000
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] Type 15-7
Hey,
i try to build up a PV- Simulation with German weatherdata given in TRY format. Therefore i use the Type 15-7 .But always when i run a simulation it says" Unable to correctly read from the supplied data file - please check the file and re-run the simulation"in the list-file. I tried a few thinks,but i cant get it to work.
Any suggestions?

Thanks


Stefan
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--
bridjesh