[TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS-CONTAM-TYPE98

[Dols, William Stuart]

It looks to be “working” now.
The previous set of files you sent had nothing connected to the control input signals.
The latest set of files has the “new” equation connected to them, so the airflow paths are “open” whenever the outdoor temperature rises above 17 C.

In your TRNSYS project, you are only attempting to plot the airflows from AMBIENT into the building (signals from Type98 to Temperature-2), but all of your flows are out of the building (more on that later).
Each zone connection (group of paths between two zones) has two flows associated with it.
For example, zone 3 on level 1 (1_3) has two connections with ambient: “1_3_to_AMBIENT” and “AMBIENT_to_1_3”.
These values will always be either zero or positive.
In your case “xxx_to_AMBIENT” are positive when control values are 1, and the others are always zero.

All of the flows being out of the building is a problem, because mass balance is not being properly determined.
This appears to be due to the fact that your zones are becoming isolated when all of the paths are closed.
This in turn “throws off” the airflow calculation, and it no longer properly performs the airflow convergence test.
You should always have some leakage to prevent isolated zones.
Perhaps the best way to do this for this project is to add a flow path next to each of the existing ones with a smaller “infiltration” sized leak.
This will prevent the isolated zone problem, and provide more reasonable results.
You will need to regenerate the AIR file. See attached files.

- Stuart

From: TRNSYS-users [mailto:trnsys-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Donya Sheikh Khan
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:03 AM
To: TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS-CONTAM-TYPE98

Sorry I forgot to attache the files

2014-10-18 9:01 GMT+02:00 Donya Sheikh Khan <donya_sh at msn.com<mailto:donya_sh at msn.com>>:
Actually it is TRNSYS that doesn't show me results, if I try to display the results using Contam, it shows me my airflows


2014-10-18 8:47 GMT+02:00 Donya Sheikh Khan <donya_sh at msn.com<mailto:donya_sh at msn.com>>:
Hi,

Thanks again..

I have tried to create a new model by trying to follow the cottage example as much as I can. I have connected TYpe98 to an equation which sends a signal 1 only if the outdoor temperatures are above 17. Still I don't get any air-flow to the orifice.

I'm not sure of what you mean about "you need to connect something to the input signal.."?

Regards
Donya

2014-10-17 22:18 GMT+02:00 Dols, William Stuart <william.dols at nist.gov<mailto:william.dols at nist.gov>>:

You need to connect something to the “Input signal to control named: <…>” INPUTS of Type98, i.e., <atrium_v1c>, <Rum2.1_eksc>, etc.
These values will be transferred to the associated named controls of the CONTAM PRJ file via Type98.
Note that if you want to control more than one item in CONTAM with a single value, you can use phantom control nodes within the PRJ.
You can reference the named control nodes within CONTAM with a phantom node.
This is demonstrated in the cottage_dcv example provided with Type98 files.
- Stuart

From: TRNSYS-users [mailto:trnsys-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:trnsys-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>] On Behalf Of Donya Sheikh Khan
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 3:40 PM
To: TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS-CONTAM-TYPE98

Hi

Thanks for your replay. Here is my model. I tried looking at the model, I can't immediately see, what that can be causing this problem.

Thanks
Donya

2014-10-17 13:19 GMT+02:00 Dols, William Stuart <william.dols at nist.gov<mailto:william.dols at nist.gov>>:
Donya,
It sounds like you have the right idea, but it’s hard to tell exact details from your description.
Have you run the example case provided with Type98?
This example provides control of simple AHS flows and an HRV fan via control signals provided to/from CONTAM from/to TRNSYS via Type98, i.e., both signal directions are demonstrated to synchronize system flows between CONTAM and Type56.

If you want, you can send me your files, and I will look at them.

There are some things you can do to help debug your issues:
- Create report controls in the associated CONTAM project file and view outputs in <your project>.log file.
- Plot/output signals in TRNSYS to ensure correct logic, etc.
- Set the first value in the air file to 3 to write detailed data exchange info to the Type98.log file available in the Type98 AppData directory, e.g., in Windows 7 C:\Users\<you>\AppData\<Roaming>\NIST\Type98.

Regards,
- Stuart

W. Stuart Dols
National Institute of Standards and Technology
Engineering Laboratory
Indoor Air Quality and Ventilation Group
100 Bureau Drive MS 8633
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8633
www.bfrl.nist.gov/IAQanalysis<http://www.bfrl.nist.gov/IAQanalysis>


From: Donya Sheikh Khan [mailto:donya_sh at msn.com<mailto:donya_sh at msn.com>]
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2014 2:26 PM
To: trnsys-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:trnsys-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS-CONTAM-TYPE98

Hi

I'm a student at Aarhus University in Denmark. I'm trying to create a Contam model, where I have a section of a building with an atrium, where I want to use natural ventilation during summer to ventilate the rooms.

I use Contam3.1 and TRNSYS 17 to couple Type56 and Type98 with each other. The coupling is going as planned. I have used constant controllers in Contam to get manual inputs, so I can vary the opening area of my paths. When I manually set the inputs from the controllers to have a value (e.g. 1) in Type98 everything is well (I get values of the flow), and when I try to connect it to an equation with a constant value, I still have a flow. But when I connect the input values to an equation with a variable value (e.g. from 1 if the outdoor temperature is 17C and above and 0 otherwise) I don't get any flow (looking over 8760 hr) - it is as if it can't read variable values.

Now when I copy everything but just use Type97 instead of Type98 and use a variable input value for the controller I get a flow. The only thing is, I get a convergence error because the Type56 isn't converging. This gives me some pretty huge errors when I compare my TRNSYS-Type98 model with TRNSYS-Type97 model.

My questions is, I really want to use Type98, is there any way I can fix the problems with the model not accepting variable input-control-signals? and if nothing can be done, how can I fix the convergence problem?

--
Regards
Donya Sheikh Khan

--
Med venlig hilsen
Donya Sheikh Khan


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--
Med venlig hilsen
Donya Sheikh Khan


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--
Med venlig hilsen
Donya Sheikh Khan




--
Med venlig hilsen
Donya Sheikh Khan




--
Med venlig hilsen
Donya Sheikh Khan

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