[Bldg-sim] Design Builder : Low E coated surface

D. Charlie Curcija curcija at designbuildersoftware.com
Fri Aug 28 06:11:56 PDT 2009


Deepa,

When you go to Openings in DB, and select glazing, then either edit 
existing or create new ("+") glazing system, in the screen that opens, 
on the left part of that screen there is section with Layers, and when 
you click on Pane Type, on the right side of the screen, there is upper 
portion and lower portion.  Upper portion is selection area and there is 
selection of glasses, including IGDB.  They are grouped by types (clear, 
coated, etc.).  If you expand coated group and select one of coated 
glazings, lower portion (right below the list) shows properties.  If you 
scroll down, you will see section on Infra-Red properties, where 
emissivities 1 and 2 are listed.  first one is outdoor faced and second 
one is indoor faced, so as appropriate you can determine if it is right 
orientation or not, and if not you just use flip box in the left portion 
of the screen where you clicked on Pane Type.

Charlie


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Design Builder : Low E coated surface
From: deepa chandrashekaran <creations.deepa at googlemail.com>
To: D. Charlie Curcija <curcija at designbuildersoftware.com>
Date: 8/28/2009 8:52 AM
> Charlie,
>
> Where can you find the emmisivity of each glass in Design Builder? I 
> am looking for the same.
>
> Nick, I agree with your comments about the 'flip' function in Design 
> Builder. Is there a way to find out which surface has the coating in 
> Design Builder ?
>
> I have not yet used Windows5.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Deepa
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:46 AM, D. Charlie Curcija 
> <curcija at designbuildersoftware.com 
> <mailto:curcija at designbuildersoftware.com>> wrote:
>
>     WINDOW has function to flip glass.  It is a check box "flip" at
>     the glazing layer level.  Same function is available in DesignBuilder.
>
>     DesignBuilder includes IGDB and the rule is the same as in WINDOW,
>     surface 1 is facing outdoor, while surface 2 is facing indoors.
>      Same rule applies to layers, first glass is outdoormost, last
>     glass is innermost.  In DesignBuiolder you can look at the
>     emissivities of each glass layer and if emissivity is lower than
>     0.84 (usually low-e is is less that about 0.2), then this is low-e
>     surface.  So if the glass that you selected has low-e surface
>     facing wrong side, then you can check "flip" box and reverse it.
>      As somebody pointed out, this reverses the orientation of the
>     glass, not the order of glass in the glazing system.  Typically,
>     you want to have one low-e surface in each gap space (having two
>     low-e surfaces in the same gap space provides negligible
>     improvement) and typically you do not want low-e facing either
>     indoor or outdoor (some manufacturers have started using hard coat
>     low-e facing indoors in order to improve U-factor of the glazing
>     system and whole window, but this is still pretty rare due to
>     issues of cleaning exposed low-e surfaces, discoloring, etc.
>      Also, it has negative consequences on condensation resistance.)
>      Thus if you have, for example double glazing system with
>     Pilkington Suncool  Brilliant 30/17 (low-e glass) on the outdoor
>     side and Pilkington North America Optifloat  Clear (Clear) on the
>     indoor side, you will notice that the low-e surface on the
>     Pilkington Suncool  Brilliant 30/17 is surface #1, which would
>     mean that it faces outdoors.  So you would check flip box, which
>     will place low-e coating on surface #2, which would be correct
>     becasue it would be facing the glazing gap.
>
>     Charlie Curcija
>     DesignBuilder Software USA
>
>
>     -------- Original Message --------
>     Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Design Builder : Low E coated surface
>     From: Chris Yates <chris at zed-uk.com <mailto:chris at zed-uk.com>>
>     To: Nick Kovess <Nick.Kovess at meinhardtgroup.com
>     <mailto:Nick.Kovess at meinhardtgroup.com>>
>     Date: 8/28/2009 5:17 AM
>
>         Nick's right. I didn't have the software in front of me at the
>         time. Window 5 uses the international glazing database that I
>         talked about. DB uses the same data. It is easier to review it
>         in Window. I don't think Window has a flip feature - is that
>         right Nick?
>         Cheers
>         Chris
>
>         Sent from my iPhone
>
>         On 28 Aug 2009, at 06:48, "Nick Kovess"
>         <Nick.Kovess at meinhardtgroup.com
>         <mailto:Nick.Kovess at meinhardtgroup.com>> wrote:
>
>             Hi Deepa,
>
>             I believe 'flip' means to switch which 'surface' on the
>             individual pane the low-E coating is applied to. The order
>             of the panes in the glazing setup will not change if you
>             tick the flip box. When you are building up a glazing
>             system, design builder clearly shows 'outermost pane' and
>             'innermost pane', these do not change if you check the
>             flip box.
>
>             Basically I believe it is the opposite to what Chris just
>             said.
>
>             In terms of finding out on which surface the coating
>             originally is, and thus where it will move to if
>             'flipped', I have found using the software Window5 easiest
>             for this. In Window5, find the same pane you wish to use
>             in DesignBuilder and when you look at the glazing set up
>             you can see a dashed line which indicates the location of
>             the coating.
>
>             Hope that helps
>
>
>
>             Nick Kovess
>             Engineer | Building Science Group
>
>             Meinhardt
>             Level 12
>             501 Swanston Street
>             Melbourne VIC 3000
>             Phone: +61 (0) 3 8676 1200
>             Direct:  +61 (0) 3 8676 1366
>             Mobile: 0413 586 936
>             Fax:     +61 (0) 3 8676 1201
>             E-mail: nick.kovess at meinhardtgroup.com
>             <mailto:nick.kovess at meinhardtgroup.com>
>             http://www.meinhardtgroup.com
>
>
>                         Chris Yates <chris at zed-uk.com
>                         <mailto:chris at zed-uk.com>> 28/08/2009 3:14 pm >>>
>
>             Hi Deepa
>             I think flip means swap the place of inside and outside
>             pane - not
>             flipping the individual panes so that the coating moves to the
>             opposite surface.
>             DB uses the International Glazing Database which you can
>             download from
>             lbnl. It's easy to use so worth downloading a copy.
>             Unforunately you
>             can't transfer the results to DB at present.
>
>             Chris
>
>             Sent from my iPhone
>
>             On 28 Aug 2009, at 04:38, deepa chandrashekaran
>             <creations.deepa at googlemail.com
>             <mailto:creations.deepa at googlemail.com>
>
>                 wrote:
>
>
>                 Jeff,
>
>                 Thank you for responding. I agree that it depends on
>                 the climate.
>
>                 Design Builder has the option called 'flip' while
>                 making the double
>                 pane assembly. Hence I was not clear as to which
>                 surface is the
>                 coating on and what does flip actually mean?
>
>
>                 Deepa
>
>
>                 On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Jeff Haberl
>                 <jhaberl at tamu.edu <mailto:jhaberl at tamu.edu>> wrote:
>                 The "surface" depends on the climate.
>
>                 Cooling dominated climates benefit from the low-E on
>                 the inside
>                 surface of the outside pane.
>
>                 Heating dominated climates benefit from the low-E on
>                 the outside
>                 surface of the inside pane.
>
>                 Such characteristics are normally defined by the
>                 applicable codes
>                 for a given location.
>
>                 Jeff
>                 BB 8=! 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=( 8=) :=') 8=) 8=) 8=? BB
>
>                 Jeff S. Haberl, Ph.D., P.E.,
>                 FASHRAE...................jhaberl at esl.tamu.edu
>                 <mailto:FASHRAE...................jhaberl at esl.tamu.edu>
>
>                 Professor.
>                 .....................................................Office
>                 Ph: 979-845-6507
>
>                 Department of Architecture.......................Lab
>                 Ph: 979-845-6065
>
>                 Energy Systems Laboratory.......................FAX:
>                 979-862-2457
>
>                 Texas A&M
>                 University..............................77843-3581
>
>                 College Station, Texas, USA.......................URL:
>                 www-
>                 esl.tamu.edu <http://esl.tamu.edu>
>
>                 BB 8=/ 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=() 8=) 8=?  8=) 8=) 8= BB
>
>                 From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
>                 <mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>
>                 <bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
>                 <mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>
>
>
>                 To: Bldg-Sim <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
>                 <mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>>
>                 Sent: Thu Aug 27 21:58:12 2009
>                 Subject: [Bldg-sim] Design Builder : Low E coated surface
>                 Hello all,
>
>                 I am trying to model several types of Low E glazing in
>                 Design
>                 Builder to understand the effect on the peak heating
>                 and cooling load.
>
>                 While choosing different glazing, I could not
>                 understand which
>                 surface of the glazing has the Low E coating.
>
>                 I would appreciate any inputs about this aspect.
>
>
>                 Thanks,
>                 Deepa Chandrashekaran, LEED AP
>                 Master of Building Science 2010
>                 University of Southern California
>
>
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