[Equest-users] Input function with daylight factors for accurate daylighting

[Nathan Kegel]

Felt like a response was warranted to clarify how this works.

There is no need to copy/paste from Vista or generate a separate schedule in IES VE.  IES have a GUI for Radiance which allows the user to place a sensor in a zone, create a control algorithm for that sensor (more accurately, create a means for how the sensor should either dim or "step" lights on/off), run an annual daylight simulation using Radiance (for which we have an algorithm that looks at various sky conditions throughout the year and relates them to the sky conditions in the climate file), then, by means of simply ticking a box, feed the results of that annual daylight simulation directly into the thermal simulation.

It is true that you can export the actual hourly illuminance levels from Vista - but (again) there is no need to do that in order to use the results in the thermal simulation within the VE.  In other words - it's not very labor intensive to actually incorporate an annual Radiance simulation into the thermal simulation.

That's the short version.  If anyone is interested in learning more (as I don't wish to turn this into an IES thread), I'm sure you'll let me know.  :)

[IES]<http://www.iesve.com/>

Nathan Kegel
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From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Kent Beason
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:20 PM
To: 'Sami, Vikram'; 'Bishop, Bill'; 'David Griffin'; 'Busman, Michael R'; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Input function with daylight factors for accurate daylighting

The following article is a good read since it is related: http://www.nrel.gov/sustainable_nrel/pdfs/47522.pdf.  Some background info is given with regard to the shortfalls of DOE2 daylighting vs backward raytracing aka Radiance-based tools also, so I thought I'd post it for reference.  It also gives a good play-by-play in context of the NREL RSF case study, which incorporated the use of SPOT, an Excel-based tool which runs Radiance in the background.

That said, IESVE currently would fit better in your process obviously since it's already being used in the project as you say.  Similarly, as is described for SPOT in the article, exporting a dimming schedule from IES is simple from its Vista module once the simulation is done, and then imported into eQuest.  Apparently lots of other schedules were created during the RSF design with software tools better suited for various analyses but the central energy model was crunched by eQuest I believe using those imported schedules.  SPOT may still be of use as it is supposed to find the optimal sensor placement, but any sensor placement will need to be consistent with actual lighting layout/circuits anyways.  Anyone familiar with SPOT might be able to contribute.

Kent Beason
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office - 903 581 2291
cell - 830 609 8904

From: Sami, Vikram [mailto:vikram.sami at zgf.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 7:26 PM
To: Bishop, Bill; David Griffin; 'Busman, Michael R'; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Input function with daylight factors for accurate daylighting

Couple of suggestions:


1.       Run the model in IES - I think they have a better daylight algorithm.

2.       Use Daysim  - you can get hourly light level readings from Daysim that you can postprocess to create a lighting schedule in eQUEST. This is probably fairly labor intensive.

Vikram Sami
Associate Partner



ZGF ARCHITECTS LLP
T 206.521.3509 E vikram.sami at zgf.com<mailto:vikram.sami at zgf.com>
925 Fourth Avenue, Suite 2400
Seattle, WA 98104


From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Bishop, Bill
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 1:42 PM
To: David Griffin; 'Busman, Michael R'; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Input function with daylight factors for accurate daylighting

David,
You can get a sense of the clerestory windows, curtain walls etc. in these views. Obviously, this will be fun geometry in eQUEST. The design team is also modeling it in IES-VE - I will see if they can get me their daylighting output for comparison.

[cid:image005.png at 01CE990C.CD744710]
[cid:image006.png at 01CE990C.CD744710]

~Bill

From: David Griffin [mailto:dgriffin at etcgrp.com]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 4:30 PM
To: 'Busman, Michael R'; Bishop, Bill; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Input function with daylight factors for accurate daylighting

Bill,

Since eQUEST utilizes a split flux calculation which averages lighting levels, it is not super accurate when it comes to daylighting. You can, however, use daylighting to approximate energy savings in eQUEST using appropriately zoned perimeters spaces and sunspaces.

If you truly want accurate daylighting in eQUEST, you're going to have to use a third party software and create an 8760 schedule within eQuest to reflect the results (I suggest using a GUI for Radiance such as AGi32).

If I knew exactly what you were trying to do and had a better sense of the geometry you are working with, I could assist you further.

Unlike Mike, the song is BEFORE my time, but I'll spare you the old guy jokes ;)

Thanks,

David Griffin
Energy Analyst
ETC Group, LLC
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Cell 480.235.0899
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From: Busman, Michael R [mailto:MBusman at chevron.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 2:56 PM
To: Bishop, Bill; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Input function with daylight factors for accurate daylighting

Bill,

Sorry, but I can't help you out on your daylighting question.  I'm also sorry, but the song was AFTER my time.  I'm more into 60's & 70's music and boogie woogie and piano blues artists who died 50 or more years ago. :)

Mike Busman

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Bishop, Bill
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 10:25 AM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: [Equest-users] Input function with daylight factors for accurate daylighting

I am modeling a building with many clerestory windows of various orientations in a complex roof geometry. I would like to accurately model the daylighting savings in eQUEST. Has anyone had luck creating an input function that uses daylight illuminance factors, as described by Steve Baker<http://simulationresearch.lbl.gov/dirpubs/complex_dayltg.pdf> back when Bush Sr. was president and this song<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EcjWd-O4jI> was a Top 10 hit? "Limitations of the Daylighting Calculation" and an "Example of Using Measured Daylight Factors" using an input function are described in the DOE-2 help.

Thanks,
Bill

William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, LEED AP | Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP
Senior Energy Engineer

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