[Bldg-sim] Design Builder : Low E coated surface

deepa chandrashekaran creations.deepa at googlemail.com
Fri Aug 28 05:52:33 PDT 2009


Charlie,

Where can you find the emmisivity of each glass in Design Builder? I am
looking for the same.

Nick, I agree with your comments about the 'flip' function in Design
Builder. Is there a way to find out which surface has the coating in Design
Builder ?

I have not yet used Windows5.


Thanks,
Deepa



On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:46 AM, D. Charlie Curcija <
curcija at designbuildersoftware.com> wrote:

> WINDOW has function to flip glass.  It is a check box "flip" at the glazing
> layer level.  Same function is available in DesignBuilder.
>
> DesignBuilder includes IGDB and the rule is the same as in WINDOW, surface
> 1 is facing outdoor, while surface 2 is facing indoors.  Same rule applies
> to layers, first glass is outdoormost, last glass is innermost.  In
> DesignBuiolder you can look at the emissivities of each glass layer and if
> emissivity is lower than 0.84 (usually low-e is is less that about 0.2),
> then this is low-e surface.  So if the glass that you selected has low-e
> surface facing wrong side, then you can check "flip" box and reverse it.  As
> somebody pointed out, this reverses the orientation of the glass, not the
> order of glass in the glazing system.  Typically, you want to have one low-e
> surface in each gap space (having two low-e surfaces in the same gap space
> provides negligible improvement) and typically you do not want low-e facing
> either indoor or outdoor (some manufacturers have started using hard coat
> low-e facing indoors in order to improve U-factor of the glazing system and
> whole window, but this is still pretty rare due to issues of cleaning
> exposed low-e surfaces, discoloring, etc.  Also, it has negative
> consequences on condensation resistance.)  Thus if you have, for example
> double glazing system with Pilkington Suncool  Brilliant 30/17 (low-e glass)
> on the outdoor side and Pilkington North America Optifloat  Clear (Clear) on
> the indoor side, you will notice that the low-e surface on the Pilkington
> Suncool  Brilliant 30/17 is surface #1, which would mean that it faces
> outdoors.  So you would check flip box, which will place low-e coating on
> surface #2, which would be correct becasue it would be facing the glazing
> gap.
>
> Charlie Curcija
> DesignBuilder Software USA
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Design Builder : Low E coated surface
> From: Chris Yates <chris at zed-uk.com>
> To: Nick Kovess <Nick.Kovess at meinhardtgroup.com>
> Date: 8/28/2009 5:17 AM
>
>> Nick's right. I didn't have the software in front of me at the time.
>> Window 5 uses the international glazing database that I talked about. DB
>> uses the same data. It is easier to review it in Window. I don't think
>> Window has a flip feature - is that right Nick?
>> Cheers
>> Chris
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 28 Aug 2009, at 06:48, "Nick Kovess" <Nick.Kovess at meinhardtgroup.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Deepa,
>>>
>>> I believe 'flip' means to switch which 'surface' on the individual pane
>>> the low-E coating is applied to. The order of the panes in the glazing setup
>>> will not change if you tick the flip box. When you are building up a glazing
>>> system, design builder clearly shows 'outermost pane' and 'innermost pane',
>>> these do not change if you check the flip box.
>>>
>>> Basically I believe it is the opposite to what Chris just said.
>>>
>>> In terms of finding out on which surface the coating originally is, and
>>> thus where it will move to if 'flipped', I have found using the software
>>> Window5 easiest for this. In Window5, find the same pane you wish to use in
>>> DesignBuilder and when you look at the glazing set up you can see a dashed
>>> line which indicates the location of the coating.
>>>
>>> Hope that helps
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick Kovess
>>> Engineer | Building Science Group
>>>
>>> Meinhardt
>>> Level 12
>>> 501 Swanston Street
>>> Melbourne VIC 3000
>>> Phone: +61 (0) 3 8676 1200
>>> Direct:  +61 (0) 3 8676 1366
>>> Mobile: 0413 586 936
>>> Fax:     +61 (0) 3 8676 1201
>>> E-mail: nick.kovess at meinhardtgroup.com
>>> http://www.meinhardtgroup.com
>>>
>>>
>>>  Chris Yates <chris at zed-uk.com> 28/08/2009 3:14 pm >>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Deepa
>>> I think flip means swap the place of inside and outside pane - not
>>> flipping the individual panes so that the coating moves to the
>>> opposite surface.
>>> DB uses the International Glazing Database which you can download from
>>> lbnl. It's easy to use so worth downloading a copy. Unforunately you
>>> can't transfer the results to DB at present.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 28 Aug 2009, at 04:38, deepa chandrashekaran <
>>> creations.deepa at googlemail.com
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>  Jeff,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for responding. I agree that it depends on the climate.
>>>>
>>>> Design Builder has the option called 'flip' while making the double
>>>> pane assembly. Hence I was not clear as to which surface is the
>>>> coating on and what does flip actually mean?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Deepa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Jeff Haberl <jhaberl at tamu.edu> wrote:
>>>> The "surface" depends on the climate.
>>>>
>>>> Cooling dominated climates benefit from the low-E on the inside
>>>> surface of the outside pane.
>>>>
>>>> Heating dominated climates benefit from the low-E on the outside
>>>> surface of the inside pane.
>>>>
>>>> Such characteristics are normally defined by the applicable codes
>>>> for a given location.
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>> BB 8=! 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=( 8=) :=') 8=) 8=) 8=? BB
>>>>
>>>> Jeff S. Haberl, Ph.D., P.E.,
>>>> FASHRAE...................jhaberl at esl.tamu.edu
>>>>
>>>> Professor.
>>>> .....................................................Office Ph:
>>>> 979-845-6507
>>>>
>>>> Department of Architecture.......................Lab Ph: 979-845-6065
>>>>
>>>> Energy Systems Laboratory.......................FAX: 979-862-2457
>>>>
>>>> Texas A&M University..............................77843-3581
>>>>
>>>> College Station, Texas, USA.......................URL: www-
>>>> esl.tamu.edu
>>>>
>>>> BB 8=/ 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=() 8=) 8=?  8=) 8=) 8= BB
>>>>
>>>> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org <
>>>> bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  To: Bldg-Sim <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
>>>> Sent: Thu Aug 27 21:58:12 2009
>>>> Subject: [Bldg-sim] Design Builder : Low E coated surface
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> I am trying to model several types of Low E glazing in Design
>>>> Builder to understand the effect on the peak heating and cooling load.
>>>>
>>>> While choosing different glazing, I could not understand which
>>>> surface of the glazing has the Low E coating.
>>>>
>>>> I would appreciate any inputs about this aspect.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Deepa Chandrashekaran, LEED AP
>>>> Master of Building Science 2010
>>>> University of Southern California
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bldg-sim mailing list
>>>> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to
>>>> BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>> Bldg-sim mailing list
>> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to
>> BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20090828/40fa0de8/attachment-0001.htm>


More information about the Bldg-sim mailing list