[Bldg-sim] Bldg-sim Digest, Vol 35, Issue 10

[Attiq]

Hi to all

I am modeling a building in eQUEST
This building has a garage on the grind floor and the ceiling above is concrete the plenum bellow the concrete floor is heated with furnaces. Any ideas how this can be modeled in eQUESt. 

Thanks.

Attiq

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 14, 2010, at 3:00 PM, bldg-sim-request at lists.onebuilding.org wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. LEED modeling / air leakage / R-values (Paul Grahovac)
>   2. Re: LEED modeling / air leakage / R-values (Cheney)
>   3. Interpretation of Table G-A in ASHRAE 90.1 2007 (Rob Hudson)
>   4. Re: Interpretation of Table G-A in ASHRAE 90.1 2007
>      (Carol Gardner)
>   5. Re: Interpretation of Table G-A in ASHRAE 90.1 2007 (Paul Riemer)
> I am not a modeler, but I’ve worked a bit with the TRANE Trace demo software a few years ago.
> 
>  
> 
> I’ve forgotten how to maneuver within it, so I was hoping someone might comment on this question.
> 
>  
> 
> The software provided an air leakage rate for whatever wall assembly is entered into the model.
> 
>  
> 
> I know from previous posts and responses that you do not change the air leakage rate to account for any air barrier system that is to be installed.  I also know that if you do apply an air barrier leakage rate, the model is very sensitive to it, and the model produces significant energy savings because of it.
> 
>  
> 
> And, it’s my understanding the R-value rating of the insulation is used despite that the rating is based on more or less zero air flow.
> 
>  
> 
> So, I’m wondering if the models, seeing both zero-air-flow insulation and un-moderated leakage rates, ignore one or the other or somehow produce a modulated result that reflects reduced wall assembly R-value from air leakage through it.
> 
>  
> 
> Paul Grahovac, LEED AP
> 
> Product Manager
> 
> R-GUARD Air & Water-Resistive Barrier
> 
> PROSOCO, Inc.
> 
> 3741 Greenway Circle
> 
> Lawrence, Kansas  66046
> 
> (785) 830-7355
> 
> (888) 376-3417 fax
> 
> pgrahovac at prosoco.com
> 
> web site  http://www.prosoco.com/
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Hi Paul,
>  
> Probably I did not really understand your question. But my understanding is that R values of building assemblies will be mainly used for conductive calculation while air leakage rate through assemblies will be involved in convective one. In this case, there is no modulated result reflected the combined effect of the two parameters. Instead, they are represented respectively in the simulation results.
>  
> Cheers,
> Cheney 
> On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Paul Grahovac <paul.grahovac at prosoco.com> wrote:
> I am not a modeler, but I’ve worked a bit with the TRANE Trace demo software a few years ago.
> 
>  
> 
> I’ve forgotten how to maneuver within it, so I was hoping someone might comment on this question.
> 
>  
> 
> The software provided an air leakage rate for whatever wall assembly is entered into the model.
> 
>  
> 
> I know from previous posts and responses that you do not change the air leakage rate to account for any air barrier system that is to be installed.  I also know that if you do apply an air barrier leakage rate, the model is very sensitive to it, and the model produces significant energy savings because of it.
> 
>  
> 
> And, it’s my understanding the R-value rating of the insulation is used despite that the rating is based on more or less zero air flow.
> 
>  
> 
> So, I’m wondering if the models, seeing both zero-air-flow insulation and un-moderated leakage rates, ignore one or the other or somehow produce a modulated result that reflects reduced wall assembly R-value from air leakage through it.
> 
>  
> 
> Paul Grahovac, LEED AP
> 
> Product Manager
> 
> R-GUARD Air & Water-Resistive Barrier
> 
> PROSOCO, Inc.
> 
> 3741 Greenway Circle
> 
> Lawrence, Kansas  66046
> 
> (785) 830-7355
> 
> (888) 376-3417 fax
> 
> pgrahovac at prosoco.com
> 
> web site  http://www.prosoco.com/
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Scenario:
> I have an "intermediate" sized building (25,000 to 150,000 sqft) with several systems in it.  can each system be determined separately or should each by a System type 5/6 depending on Heating source?  I would like to label some small systems as a type 3/4 and some as type 5/6 depending on the area that is served by the system.  
> 
> thanks for any opinions that people would like to share.
> 
> -- 
> Rob Hudson
> Hi Rob,
> 
> If the systems serve distinctly different uses that comprise more than 20,000 sf you are fine. Otherwise, I would use the predominant heat source. It will be interesting to hear others opinions.
> 
> Carol
> 
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Rob Hudson <rdh4176 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Scenario:
> I have an "intermediate" sized building (25,000 to 150,000 sqft) with several systems in it.  can each system be determined separately or should each by a System type 5/6 depending on Heating source?  I would like to label some small systems as a type 3/4 and some as type 5/6 depending on the area that is served by the system.  
> 
> thanks for any opinions that people would like to share.
> 
> -- 
> Rob Hudson
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Carol Gardner PE
> Exception a of G3.1.1 looks at your proposed systems and has the noted 20,000 sf criteria.
> 
> Exceptions b & c are tied to thermal zones and are not tied to your proposed system configuration.
> 
> The planned system boundaries alone are not sufficient to trigger a separate lookup in table G.3.1.1A.
> 
> Often the mapping of system to zones is different between proposed and baseline model.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Paul Riemer
> 
> Dunham
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Carol Gardner
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 9:39 AM
> To: Rob Hudson
> Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Interpretation of Table G-A in ASHRAE 90.1 2007
> 
>  
> 
> Hi Rob,
> 
> If the systems serve distinctly different uses that comprise more than 20,000 sf you are fine. Otherwise, I would use the predominant heat source. It will be interesting to hear others opinions.
> 
> Carol
> 
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Rob Hudson <rdh4176 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Scenario:
> I have an "intermediate" sized building (25,000 to 150,000 sqft) with several systems in it.  can each system be determined separately or should each by a System type 5/6 depending on Heating source?  I would like to label some small systems as a type 3/4 and some as type 5/6 depending on the area that is served by the system.  
> 
> thanks for any opinions that people would like to share.
> 
> -- 
> Rob Hudson
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bldg-sim mailing list
> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Carol Gardner PE
> 
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