[Bldg-sim] Bldg-sim] Modeling tool for daylight, Energy, Thermal comfort analysis
E Radler
radler63 at hotmail.com
Tue Apr 26 04:12:12 PDT 2011
Hello,
no actually LTH:
http://www.ebd.lth.se/english/software/parasol/
If you want to test your own control algorithm you are stuck with most packages...
Regarding daylighting the problem is complexity since there is a huge gap between lumen methods and Raytracing...
Python sniplets for all elements and apparatus would be nice....
cheers
Gerfried
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 08:59:09 +0100
From: chris.malcolm.yates at gmail.com
To: radler63 at hotmail.com
CC: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Bldg-sim] Modeling tool for daylight, Energy, Thermal comfort analysis
Hi Gerfried,
Do you mean KTH Sweden? You said LTH! KTH do some work with Equa
Simulation AB and their system IDA ICE is very promising. The only
item on the list it doesn't tick is the daylighting - and only then
if you want output similar to Radiance. However, if you aren't
interested in a daylight map it does have a fully integrated window
shading and daylight model that interacts with the thermal
simulation at runtime - like E+. To my knowledge, I am not aware
that IES satisfies window shading models that interact with daylight
controls at runtime - perhaps Pete Murray could comment.
Best regards
Chris
On 25/04/2011 18:46, Radler63 wrote:
Hello,
we tried out a software named PARASOL, developed by LTH
SWEDEN. but since we wanted to model rollable blinds with
PV-included, adding also a special control agorithm, we did
our own model in python.
by using PARASOL you may do some postprocessing for the
comfort factors. also may point you to Mathcad which allows
to do all at a macroscopic level with the help of some
existing code and WYSIWYG coding.
best regards
Gerfried
Her is the project brief http://www.effiziente.st/sowa_en.htm
and here a new questionnaire about building integrated
solar http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/HHNBJ2B
From: Jeff Haberl
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 6:55 PM
To: ali hamada fakra
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Bldg-sim] Modeling
tool for daylight, Energy, Thermal comfort analysis
Hamada,
I did not mention nor comment on CODYRUN as I am not
familiar with this software.
jeff
8=!
8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=( 8=) 8=() 8=) 8=|
8=) :=') 8=)8=?
Jeff S. Haberl, Ph.D.,P.E.,
FASHRAE..............jhaberl at tamu.edu
Professor............................................................Office
Ph: 979-845-6507
Department of
Architecture.............................Lab
Ph:979-845-6065
Energy Systems
Laboratory.............................FAX:
979-862-2457
Texas A&M
University.....................................77843-3581
College Station, Texas, USA,
77843..................URL:www.esl.tamu.edu
8=/ 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=() 8=) :=) 8=)
8=! 8=) 8=? 8=)8=0
From:
ali hamada fakra [fakra at univ-reunion.fr]
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 4:23 AM
To: Jeff Haberl
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Bldg-sim] Modeling
tool for daylight, Energy, Thermal comfort analysis
Dear Prof. Haberl,
Is that your remarks are addressed directlty to
me ? is what I do understand that you criticize the
software CODYRUN ? If this is not the case, I
apologize to you for that question.
best regards.
A. H. Fakra
Le 25 avr. 11 à 06:49, Jeff Haberl a écrit :
Hamada,
Unfortunately,
you've chosen the worst possible
building for analysis. There are
several reasons for this.
First, there is no
single U.S. tool that does an accurate
analysis of what you are asking for.
There are some that perform simplified
analysis of most of the parameters you
are looking for, but none do it all
right (that I’m aware of). Some of the
European codes are getting close, for
example ESPr and/or IES/VE, but each
has its limitations.
To estimate the
thermal analysis with Visual DOE
(i.e., DOE-2.1e) or EQUEST (i.e.,
DOE-2.2) you’d need to have at least
one zone that is conditioned in order
to simulate conditions in an
unconditioned space. So, although it
is possible to perform such a
simulation, you have to go to great
lengths to do this with canned
simulations such as DOE-2.1e and
DOE-2.2. One successful project that
did this for a Buddhist temple was
done by Dr. Sreshthaputra, which you
can read about in:
Sreshthaputra, A.,
Haberl, J., Andrews, M. 2004.
“Improving Building Design and
Operation .of a Thai Buddhist Temple,” Energy
and Buildings, Vol. 36, pp.
481-494.
Or in his thesis:
Atch Sreshthaputra,
2004. “Building Design and Operation
for Improving Thermal Comfort in
Naturally Ventilated Buildings in a
Hot and Humid Climate,” Department of
Architecture, Texas A&M
University.
In this work, which
was calibrated to real data from the
temple, Atch created a fictitious zone
that did nothing, then proceeded to
model the temple as a unconditioned
zone, which worked with one exception
that it did not handle the air flows.
To get around this Atch ran CFD with a
program that used a 3D model from the
CHAM engine, then passed the airflows
back to DOE-2 each hour to do the run,
which calculated the dynamic heat
transfer, then back to the CFD for the
next hour’s airflow, etc., (taking 24
hours to simulate 24 hours on 2003ish
Pentium, not exactly fast).
Second, you can
probably get an estimate of the
daylighting using DOE-2.1e or DOE-2.2
that should be accurate for and
sidelights if you know the internal
geometry, including surface
characteristics, since they use the
split-flux method. More accurate
daylighting simulations can be done
with RADIANCE or annual simulations
with DAYSIM, or perhaps one of the new
annual variants of RADIANCE.
Third, true
calculations of thermal comfort would
require CFD and a internal radiation
network (should interior surfaces get
hot or cold), which further complicate
things.
So, it can be done,
but there are only a few efforts in
the literature that give solid advice
on how to do this, probably more as
time goes on. Getting all this in one
package is probably not there yet.
Probably still a good topic for a
Ph.D. thesis.
Jeff
8=! 8=) :=) 8=)
;=) 8=) 8=( 8=) 8=() 8=) 8=|
8=) :=') 8=)8=?
Jeff S. Haberl, Ph.D.,P.E.,
FASHRAE..............jhaberl at tamu.edu
Professor............................................................Office
Ph: 979-845-6507
Department of
Architecture.............................Lab
Ph:979-845-6065
Energy Systems
Laboratory.............................FAX:
979-862-2457
Texas A&M
University.....................................77843-3581
College Station, Texas, USA,
77843..................URL:www.esl.tamu.edu
8=/ 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=()
8=) :=) 8=) 8=! 8=) 8=? 8=)8=0
From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org]
on behalf of ali hamada fakra [fakra at univ-reunion.fr]
Sent: Thursday,
April 21, 2011 11:32 PM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Bldg-sim]
Bldg-sim] Modeling tool for
daylight, Energy, Thermal comfort
analysis
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:47:20 +0530
(IST)
From: Rathna Shree <rathnashreep at yahoo.in>
To: bldg <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: [Bldg-sim] Modeling tool for
daylight, Energy, Thermal
comfort
analysis
Message-ID: <935834.21570.qm at web95906.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"
Dear All,
Can you please suggest the best
modeling tool which has the
capabilities to perform Daylight
simulation, Thermal comfort analysis
in non AC spaces of a building and
Energy simulation.
I am using dialux for daylight
simulation, Visual Doe for Energy
simulation and Transys for Thermal
comfort analysis. I am inputting the
same details thrice in different
softwares. So is there any software
which can perform all the 3 analysis
in one go.
Regards,
Rathnashree
------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Rathmashree,
I suggest you use CODYRUN. Is a
french software dedicated to both
research and consulting firms. You
can make the 3 studies (Energy
simulation, Daylight and thermal
confort).that you want at the same
time. For more information about
this software, you can write to
Professor Harry Boyer (Founder of
the software) to this mail : harry.boyer at univ-reunion.fr
Best regards,
PhD / Engineer A. H. Fakra
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