[Bldg-sim] App G Baseline WSHP w Boiler Injection
Jackson, Alan
ajackson at klingstubbins.com
Tue Mar 1 13:14:09 PST 2011
One additional piece of information I am interested in is the handling
of Section G3.1.2.10 Exhaust Air Energy Recovery. In the actual design a
10,000 CFM ERV will be serving all the corridor spaces (9 in total).
This unit will be 100% OA with energy recovery.
Section G3.1.2.10 states that systems over 5,000 CFM require modeling
energy recovery in the baseline. So it would seem I need to model energy
recovery on the PTAC serving the corridor(s). Right? To do this I would
actually be modeling a Packaged Rooftop Unit with the efficiencies of a
PTAC because it's not easy to implement heat recovery on a PTAC in
Energyplus.
The one twist to this is that in the 90.1 2007 Addendum w it states:
G3.1.2.10 Exhaust Air Energy Recovery
...
Exceptions: If any of these exceptions apply, exhaust air
energy recovery shall not be included in the baseline
building design.
...
i. Systems serving dwelling units in multifamily buildings.
The corridor is not a dwelling unit, but it was worth pointing that
addendum note out.
Alan Jackson, LEED AP
KlingStubbins
From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Jackson,
Alan
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 9:54 AM
To: Nick Caton
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] App G Baseline WSHP w Boiler Injection
Nick,
Yes, it is well below 20,000 ft2 so I believe you are correct. Thanks
for the help. I will proceed under the residential building system type.
Alan Jackson, LEED AP
KlingStubbins
From: Nick Caton [mailto:ncaton at smithboucher.com]
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 9:32 AM
To: Jackson, Alan; Cheney
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] App G Baseline WSHP w Boiler Injection
So far as system type goes, consider that your building is first either
Residential or Nonresidential, and your building type determines your
baseline system.
The only reason you'd have both building types (and thus 2 baseline
system types) is if you have non-predominant conditions per exceptions
to G3.1.1.
If you've got >20,000SF of egress/back-of-house spaces, you might pursue
a second baseline system type declaring non-predominant conditions, but
for simplicity I'd be inclined to lump it all under one baseline type as
part of a residential building, unless told otherwise.
NICK CATON, E.I.T.
PROJECT ENGINEER
Smith & Boucher Engineers
25501 west valley parkway
olathe ks 66061
direct 913 344.0036
fax 913 345.0617
www.smithboucher.com
From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Jackson,
Alan
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 7:19 AM
To: Cheney
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] App G Baseline WSHP w Boiler Injection
Cheney
Hey, thanks for the response. I agree, I think hybrid is the way to go
in this scenario.
One other issue I came across, since I not as familiar modeling
residential buildings, is the way that egress areas are treated. ASHRAE
list residential spaces as only including "guest rooms, living quarters,
private living space and sleeping quarters."
Does this mean the residential corridors and stairs need to be System 7,
and not PTAC, since the building is greater than 5 stories?
Thanks again,
Alan Jackson, LEED AP
KlingStubbins
From: Cheney [mailto:chenyu73 at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 2:31 PM
To: Jackson, Alan
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] App G Baseline WSHP w Boiler Injection
Hi Jason,
I will choose Fossil/Elec. Hybrid and PTAC for your design.
Regards,
Cheney
LinkedIN @ http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/yu-cheney-chen/27/637/72b
<http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/yu-cheney-chen/27/637/72b>
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Jackson, Alan <
ajackson at klingstubbins.com> wrote:
Hello, yes it's another Appendix G Baseline question.
Typical Residential Tower system with water-cooled heat pumps for the
dwelling units. Tower Loop is closed system with a heat injection boiler
for the winters (northeast climate). Heat injection boiler is natural
gas fired.
Is the Baseline "Electric and Other"? or "Fossil/Electric Hybrid"
I have seen many postings about WSHP being modeled as "all electric"
heating, but I am getting push back on this in the office because of the
heat injection component. Any CIRs on this one? System is obviously very
common.
Thanks
Alan Jackson, LEED AP
HVAC Project Engineer / BIM Team Leader
KlingStubbins
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