[Bldg-sim] Bldg-sim Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9
paula esquivias
paula.esquivias at hotmail.com
Mon Oct 10 14:12:20 PDT 2011
Hi Chou,
I understand that the meaning of these loads are:
Monthly Heating/Cooling loads: it's the monthly average sume of all gains and loses of your space
Hourly gains: it indicates for every hour of a specific day what its the behaviuor of each kind of energy flow
Specific gain hourly or monthly allow you to know the behaviuor of that energy transferEach point allows you to know differents aspects. The first only gives you the total for every month, the second allows you analize what load is important in a specific day and the last aspect allows you to know the anual behaviuor of a specific transfer of energy.
I don't know if it's clearly now or I confuse you more
Regards
Paula Esquivias
Department of Architectural Construction 1
High Technical School of Architecture
University of Seville (Spain)
From: bldg-sim-request at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Bldg-sim Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:30:45 -0700
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From: csz59 at mst.edu
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 12:20:57 -0500
Subject: [Bldg-sim] loads and gians in Ecotect
Hi
I have some problem when using Ecotect to make thermal analysis.
In thermal calculation I can get some gains and loads as following:
1. in MONTHLY HEATING/COOLING LOADS, I can get the Max Heating/Cooling loads and the time
2. in HOURLY GAINS I can choose the particular time in 1 and get the HVAC load
3. I can get fabric, direct solar.... gains at some particular time and then make a sum, so I get another gain
I thin there three gains or laods should be the same, but acturally they aren't. I am confused.
--
Chou Shen
Graduate Research Assistant
Department of Civil, Architectural & Environmental Engineering
Missouri University of Science and Technology
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From: anne.moellenberndt at arup.com
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 12:11:31 -0700
Subject: [Bldg-sim] Modeling to the MNECB in canada
I’m looking for some feedback from anyone who has used EE4 and/or modeled a building against the MNECB 1997 in Canada. 1. How are the Energy Source Adjustment Factors used when modeling a building for LEED against the MNECB? It appears that these factors are meant to be multiplied by the total energy cost from each type of use. I see that at least in LEED Canada NC 1.0/1.1, the calculations for EQ p2 require 25% improvement in energy consumption (not cost) over MNECB. Presumably this requires use of the ESAF in that calculation. However, LEED also requires that calculations for energy savings are based on energy cost. When calculating energy costs, do you have to use the ESAF as well as the different utility rates? Or do you use the actual consumption (without using the ESAF) to figure the cost?2. The code appears to require use of baseline systems that completely mirror the proposed systems – boiler for boiler, chiller for chiller, multi-zone for multi-zone. How have others found ways to show significant energy savings given this constraint? The newer versions of ASHRAE allow comparison of a proposed ground-source heat pump system, for example, against a boiler heating baseline system, or a VAV system against a packaged system, depending on various factors. But the MNECB and ASHRAE 90.1-1999 don’t allow this. I am struggling to see how it would be possible to get more than 20-30% savings given these rules. Thanks, Anne Marie Moellenberndt PE LEED APSenior Mechanical Engineer Arup403 Columbia Street Suite 220 Seattle WA 98104 t +1 206 749 9674 d +1 206 493 2244 f +1 206 749 0665 www.arup.com ____________________________________________________________
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From: bfountain at greensim.com
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org; anne.moellenberndt at arup.com
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:50:30 -0400
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Modeling to the MNECB in canada
Item 1 - the ESAF's are used in defining the reference building
envelope parameters -- that is why you must define the primary
heating source for each zone. In practise, you just use the energy
consumption & costs from EE4 to populate the LEED Canada letter
template. The ESAF's are not used in the EA-Cr 1 or EA Pr 2
calculations.
Item 2 - your interpretation is not correct. There is a document
called the Performance Compliance for Buildings which defines the
reference building (automatically generated by EE4). Roughly
translated, the reference building has a single 80% efficient boiler
(if you have hydronic heating in the proposed building, it has 1 or
2 chillers (2 if your plant exceeds 700 tons) with a COP of 5.2.
There are 3 reference building types -- single zone, residential
(hotels, dorms etc) ... and everything else which has a VAV
reference system type.
The MNECB is and old code very easy to beat. Standard design should
be 25% better than the MNECB (due mainly to lighting). Good HVAC
design (e.g. condensing boilers, dedicated OA systems and
ventilation heat recovery) can put you 50 to 60% better than the
MNECB. (My office is in a building >75% better than the MNECB,
but that is another story).
On 10/10/2011 3:11 PM, Anne M. Moellenberndt wrote:
I’m looking for some feedback from anyone
who has used EE4 and/or modeled a building against the MNECB
1997 in Canada.
1. How
are the Energy Source Adjustment Factors used when modeling a
building for LEED against the MNECB? It appears that these
factors are meant to be multiplied by the total energy cost
from each type of use. I see that at least in LEED Canada NC
1.0/1.1, the calculations for EQ p2 require 25% improvement in
energy consumption (not cost) over MNECB. Presumably this
requires use of the ESAF in that calculation. However, LEED
also requires that calculations for energy savings are based
on energy cost. When calculating energy costs, do you have to
use the ESAF as well as the different utility rates? Or do you
use the actual consumption (without using the ESAF) to figure
the cost?
2. The
code appears to require use of baseline systems that
completely mirror the proposed systems – boiler for boiler,
chiller for chiller, multi-zone for multi-zone. How have
others found ways to show significant energy savings given
this constraint? The newer versions of ASHRAE allow
comparison of a proposed ground-source heat pump system, for
example, against a boiler heating baseline system, or a VAV
system against a packaged system, depending on various
factors. But the MNECB and ASHRAE 90.1-1999 don’t allow
this. I am struggling to see how it would be possible to get
more than 20-30% savings given these rules.
Thanks,
Anne Marie
Moellenberndt PE LEED AP
Senior
Mechanical Engineer
Arup
403 Columbia
Street Suite 220 Seattle WA 98104
t +1 206 749
9674 d +1 206 493 2244
f +1 206 749
0665
www.arup.com
____________________________________________________________
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
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