[Bldg-sim] Modeling Centralized Water-to-Water HPs with Geothermal HPs using EE4

Kyle Fridgen KFridgen at morrisonhershfield.com
Fri Jun 22 13:54:53 PDT 2012


See attached screen shot.  It's not entirely clear, but it sounds like you select heat pump (normally reserved for air-to-air) and EE4 applies some sort of adjustment to approximate the performance of a water-to-air heat pump.  Give it a try and see what EE4 does to the DOE file.

Kyle

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Brian Fountain
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 3:43 PM
To: 'Ahmed Azhari'; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Modeling Centralized Water-to-Water HPs with Geothermal HPs using EE4

You could do that.  Given the interaction between the systems through the OA, I would be inclined to keep them as 1 system.  Put the capacities for the corridor system at the "system level" of your HP system type and then the distributed heat pumps go at the zone level.   Set the system level heating to hot water and the system level cooling to hydronic - this will be your corridor system.

At the plant level, I would use an electric boiler to model the water-to-water heat pump (which is what EE4 does behind the scene anyways only it uses a EIR < 1 = 1/COP) - you are forced to set the efficiency to 1.  Outside of EE4, simply divide the electrical heating load by a reasonable heating seasonal COP.  Central cooling will be a chiller representing the cooling from your water-to-water heat pump.

I'm not sure if that is clear - it is Friday afternoon after all.

BF



From: Ahmed Azhari [mailto:a2_azhari at hotmail.com]<mailto:[mailto:a2_azhari at hotmail.com]>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 3:22 PM
To: Brian Fountain; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Modeling Centralized Water-to-Water HPs with Geothermal HPs using EE4

Hi Brian,
Thanks for your reply.

This is the scenario; two make up air units provide fresh air into condominium corridors. The heating and cooling coils are fed from water-to-water heat pumps. In each suite, there is a ground source heat pump.

If i follow your suggestion, I create a CombinationGSHP plant with MAU system (perhaps i should choose 2-pipe FCU system) and assign only the zones with the corridors (since fresh air is dumped into corridors).

The second plant would be Geothermal system with a dummy MAU system and assign suite zones under that system. I should set the fresh air quantities to zero in the suites since fresh air has been taken care off in the first plant?

Do you think this is a good presentation of the system?

Regards,
Ahmed
________________________________
From: bfountain at greensim.com<mailto:bfountain at greensim.com>
To: a2_azhari at hotmail.com<mailto:a2_azhari at hotmail.com>; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Modeling Centralized Water-to-Water HPs with Geothermal HPs using EE4
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:14:09 -0400
Hi Ahmed,

You can define multiple plants in EE4 - what if you created one plant for your centralized water-to-water heat pumps and a second plant for your distributed heat pumps?

Brian

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org]<mailto:[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org]> On Behalf Of Ahmed Azhari
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 1:04 PM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: [Bldg-sim] Modeling Centralized Water-to-Water HPs with Geothermal HPs using EE4

I'm using EE4 (Canadian Energy Modeling Software) to model centralized water-to-water heat pumps system which provides hot/chilled water to make up air unit heating and cooling coils respectively, there are also distributed ground source heat pumps in the spaces which are connected to the ground to extract/reject heat. This combination of systems are not supported in EE4, does anyone know of a work-around to model such system?

I appreciate any input on this ...

Thanks,
Ahmed
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