[Bldg-sim] Minimum Ventilation Air in Proposed and Baseline - Breathing Zone or Outdoor Air Intake

[Hall, Brendan]

Scott,

I had thought of that addendum but I don't think it applies in your case since it is meant for UFAD/displacement systems. You may be able to show some savings using G3.1.3.13 and saying that the minimum zone airflow rates are higher for the  baseline VAV system since it is not decoupled like your chilled beam/DOAS system. Baseline and proposed would still have the same minimum OA coming into the building but you would need to do a second OA calc to find what the zone minimums would be. I think it makes sense conceptually but I haven't tried it before so not sure if a reviewer would go for it. That being said they are generally pretty good about accepting atypical arguments for energy savings as long as you show your work in a fair amount of detail.

Brendan Hall,  PE, LEED AP BD+C
Engineer, Mechanical
karpinski
ENGINEERING
3135 Euclid Avenue
Cleveland, OH  44115
P  216.391.3700<tel:216.391.3700> Ext 3111
E  bhall at karpinskieng.com<mailto:bhall at karpinskieng.com>
W www.karpinskieng.com<http://www.karpinskieng.com/>

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of West, Scott P
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 9:31 AM
To: 'Aaron Smith'; 'bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org'
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Minimum Ventilation Air in Proposed and Baseline - Breathing Zone or Outdoor Air Intake

Okay thanks Aaron.  I wasn't aware of that development.

Scott P. West, P.E., LEED AP BD+C, BEAP, BEMP | JACOBS | Mechanical Engineer | Energy & Power Solutions | 817.222.8512 office | 817.897.1882 cell | scott.west at jacobs.com<mailto:rick.zilar at jacobs.com> | www.jacobs.com<http://www.jacobs.com/> | www.jacobs.com/energyportfolio<http://www.jacobs.com/energyportfolio>

From: Aaron Smith [mailto:asmith at mreng.ca]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 8:23 AM
To: West, Scott P; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Minimum Ventilation Air in Proposed and Baseline - Breathing Zone or Outdoor Air Intake

Scott,

Thanks, I see that came out in 2010 so it didn't make it into 90.1-2010.

It allows you to claim credit for having zone effectiveness greater than 1.0 but doesn't allow you to claim system efficiency gains.

"Baseline  ventilation  airflow  rates  in  those
zones shall be calculated using the proposed design Ven-
tilation Rate  Procedure  calculation  with  the  following
change only.  Zone air distribution effectiveness shall be
changed to (Ez)=1.0 in each zone having a zone air distri-
bution effectiveness (Ez)>1.0."

So if your Proposed has a DOAS and the Baseline is VAV, the baseline won't meet Standard 62.

Aaron

Aaron Smith, P.Eng
M&R Engineering
________________________________
From: West, Scott P [mailto:Scott.West at jacobs.com]
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 5:42 PM
To: 'Aaron Smith'; 'bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org'
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Minimum Ventilation Air in Proposed and Baseline - Breathing Zone or Outdoor Air Intake

Aaron,
ASHRAE 90.1-2007 Addendum bj allows modelers to take energy savings credit for HVAC systems that increase air distribution effectiveness and use demand control ventilation.  This can therefore result in different ventilation rates between Baseline and Proposed models.  USGBC allows modelers to apply any ASHRAE Addenda they want for that version of the standard as long as it is applied uniformly and clearly stated.

Scott P. West, P.E., LEED AP BD+C, BEAP, BEMP | JACOBS | Mechanical Engineer | Energy & Power Solutions | 817.222.8512 office | 817.897.1882 cell | scott.west at jacobs.com<mailto:rick.zilar at jacobs.com> | www.jacobs.com<http://www.jacobs.com/> | www.jacobs.com/energyportfolio<http://www.jacobs.com/energyportfolio>

From: Aaron Smith [mailto:asmith at mreng.ca]
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 2:08 PM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: [Bldg-sim] Minimum Ventilation Air in Proposed and Baseline - Breathing Zone or Outdoor Air Intake

Hi,

We've received a nice boost in some models in Canada lately as the Proposed and Baseline designs only need to have the same amount of outdoor air in the breathing zone under CaGBC Rules.  Meaning that if your baseline design is VAV Reheat and your proposed design is chilled beam and baseboard heating then your proposed design will have to condition somewhere in the range of 40% less outdoor air due to higher zone effectiveness and system efficiency. It makes a lot of sense to me and becomes a significant energy savings measure.

Is this allowed by the USGBC or by ASHRAE?  I just read in 90.1 in G.3.1.2.5 that "Minimum outdoor air ventilation rates shall be the same for the proposed and baseline designs."  That doesn't specify whether they mean in the breathing zone or outdoor air intake but I think most assume it to be the outdoor air intake.

Aaron



Aaron Smith, P.Eng
LEED(r) AP BD+C, M-ASHRAE, BEMP, Mechanical Engineer



    [cid:image001.jpg at 01CEFA44.34FF4DB0]

[cid:image004.jpg at 01CEFA44.34FF4DB0]





     t: (902) 422-7393
     f: (902) 423-4945
     e: asmith at mreng.ca<mailto:asmith at mreng.ca>















The electronic message contained herein is private and confidential, intended only for the recipient(s) specified. If you have received this message in error, please delete it and notify us immediately.  Any accompanying files are supplied as a matter of courtesy only.  The data are without warranty of any kind.  Any person or business making use of the data is responsible for confirming its accuracy and completeness.  M&R Engineering Ltd. is not responsible for edited or produced versions of this digital information.




________________________________
NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.

________________________________
NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20131216/cea6ddf5/attachment-0002.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1849 bytes
Desc: image001.jpg
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20131216/cea6ddf5/attachment-0006.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 77404 bytes
Desc: image002.jpg
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20131216/cea6ddf5/attachment-0007.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image004.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 2165 bytes
Desc: image004.jpg
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20131216/cea6ddf5/attachment-0008.jpg>