[Bldg-sim] Minimum Ventilation Air in Proposed and Baseline - Breathing Zone or Outdoor Air Intake

[Aaron Smith]

Thanks Brendan,

 

This question wasn't for a specific project, it came up because it is
accepted by the CaGBC (in Canada) but didn't seem to be something that the
USGBC or ASHRAE had ruled on.

 

Regards,

Aaron

 

Aaron Smith, P.Eng 

M&R Engineering 

  _____  

From: Hall, Brendan [mailto:BHall at karpinskieng.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 10:55 AM
To: West, Scott P; 'Aaron Smith'; 'bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org'
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Minimum Ventilation Air in Proposed and Baseline -
Breathing Zone or Outdoor Air Intake

 

Scott,

 

I had thought of that addendum but I don't think it applies in your case
since it is meant for UFAD/displacement systems. You may be able to show
some savings using G3.1.3.13 and saying that the minimum zone airflow rates
are higher for the  baseline VAV system since it is not decoupled like your
chilled beam/DOAS system. Baseline and proposed would still have the same
minimum OA coming into the building but you would need to do a second OA
calc to find what the zone minimums would be. I think it makes sense
conceptually but I haven't tried it before so not sure if a reviewer would
go for it. That being said they are generally pretty good about accepting
atypical arguments for energy savings as long as you show your work in a
fair amount of detail.

 

Brendan Hall,  PE, LEED AP BD+C

Engineer, Mechanical

karpinski
ENGINEERING
3135 Euclid Avenue
Cleveland, OH  44115
P  216.391.3700 Ext 3111
E  bhall at karpinskieng.com
W www.karpinskieng.com <http://www.karpinskieng.com/> 

 

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of West, Scott P
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 9:31 AM
To: 'Aaron Smith'; 'bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org'
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Minimum Ventilation Air in Proposed and Baseline -
Breathing Zone or Outdoor Air Intake

 

Okay thanks Aaron.  I wasn't aware of that development.  

 

Scott P. West, P.E., LEED AP BD+C, BEAP, BEMP | JACOBS | Mechanical Engineer
| Energy & Power Solutions | 817.222.8512 office | 817.897.1882 cell |
scott.west at jacobs.com <mailto:rick.zilar at jacobs.com>  | www.jacobs.com
<http://www.jacobs.com/>  |  <http://www.jacobs.com/energyportfolio>
www.jacobs.com/energyportfolio 

 

From: Aaron Smith [mailto:asmith at mreng.ca] 
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 8:23 AM
To: West, Scott P; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Minimum Ventilation Air in Proposed and Baseline -
Breathing Zone or Outdoor Air Intake

 

Scott,

 

Thanks, I see that came out in 2010 so it didn't make it into 90.1-2010.  

 

It allows you to claim credit for having zone effectiveness greater than 1.0
but doesn't allow you to claim system efficiency gains.

 

"Baseline  ventilation  airflow  rates  in  those

zones shall be calculated using the proposed design Ven-

tilation Rate  Procedure  calculation  with  the  following

change only.  Zone air distribution effectiveness shall be

changed to (Ez)=1.0 in each zone having a zone air distri-

bution effectiveness (Ez)>1.0."  

 

So if your Proposed has a DOAS and the Baseline is VAV, the baseline won't
meet Standard 62.

 

Aaron

 

Aaron Smith, P.Eng 

M&R Engineering 

  _____  

From: West, Scott P [mailto:Scott.West at jacobs.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 5:42 PM
To: 'Aaron Smith'; 'bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org'
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Minimum Ventilation Air in Proposed and Baseline -
Breathing Zone or Outdoor Air Intake

 

Aaron,

ASHRAE 90.1-2007 Addendum bj allows modelers to take energy savings credit
for HVAC systems that increase air distribution effectiveness and use demand
control ventilation.  This can therefore result in different ventilation
rates between Baseline and Proposed models.  USGBC allows modelers to apply
any ASHRAE Addenda they want for that version of the standard as long as it
is applied uniformly and clearly stated.  

 

Scott P. West, P.E., LEED AP BD+C, BEAP, BEMP | JACOBS | Mechanical Engineer
| Energy & Power Solutions | 817.222.8512 office | 817.897.1882 cell |
scott.west at jacobs.com <mailto:rick.zilar at jacobs.com>  | www.jacobs.com
<http://www.jacobs.com/>  |  <http://www.jacobs.com/energyportfolio>
www.jacobs.com/energyportfolio 

 

From: Aaron Smith [mailto:asmith at mreng.ca] 
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 2:08 PM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Bldg-sim] Minimum Ventilation Air in Proposed and Baseline -
Breathing Zone or Outdoor Air Intake

 

Hi,

 

We've received a nice boost in some models in Canada lately as the Proposed
and Baseline designs only need to have the same amount of outdoor air in the
breathing zone under CaGBC Rules.  Meaning that if your baseline design is
VAV Reheat and your proposed design is chilled beam and baseboard heating
then your proposed design will have to condition somewhere in the range of
40% less outdoor air due to higher zone effectiveness and system efficiency.
It makes a lot of sense to me and becomes a significant energy savings
measure.  

 

Is this allowed by the USGBC or by ASHRAE?  I just read in 90.1 in G.3.1.2.5
that "Minimum outdoor air ventilation rates shall be the same for the
proposed and baseline designs."  That doesn't specify whether they mean in
the breathing zone or outdoor air intake but I think most assume it to be
the outdoor air intake.

 

Aaron

 


 

Aaron Smith, P.Eng 

LEEDR AP BD+C, M-ASHRAE, BEMP, Mechanical Engineer

 


    



 


 

     t: (902) 422-7393

     f: (902) 423-4945

     e:  <mailto:asmith at mreng.ca> asmith at mreng.ca 

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

 


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