[Bldg-sim] SEER and Fan Energy

[Sami, Vikram]

If I understand the quandary you are referring to packaged systems where the fan energy is included in the package. In eQUEST - if you select the EER rating (or SEER rating) in the wizard, then its my understanding that the program does this automatically for you. However, if you are using the 90.1 methodology, then you probably want to go beyond the wizard. I developed the attached spreadsheet to parse out the energy by fan and cooling - feel free to use it. I would appreciate feedback from anyone willing to check my math and methodology.



Vikram Sami, LEED AP BD+C
Sustainable Design Analyst
1315 Peachtree St. NE, Atlanta, GA 30309
t: 404-443-7462    f: 404.892.5823       e: vikram.sami at perkinswill.com   www.perkinswill.com<http://www.perkinswill.com/>
Perkins+Will.  Ideas + buildings that honor the broader goals of society


-----Original Message-----
From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of RobertWichert
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:15 PM
To: Haynes, Glenn
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] SEER and Fan Energy



That makes sense, Glenn.  So it's a manual adjustment to the EIR.  In Energy Pro, which I use a lot, that can be done by using the "Compressor/Condenser Power" option and then adding the fan power in separately, but only for systems over five tons.  Smaller systems are stuck with SEER.



I think the problem I'm facing is that Energy Pro uses SEER for small systems, not EER/EIR.









Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C

+1 916 966 9060

FAX +1 916 966 9068















===============================================



On 1/30/2013 11:31 AM, Haynes, Glenn wrote:

> Robert,

>

> First you must estimate the EIR from the SEER to input unit efficiency in DOE2.  The conversion depends on the system type and other things, but for starters you can multiply SEER by something like 0.89 to estimate EER (then EIR = 3.413/EER, which I am sure you already know) if you don't have something better.

>

> When I do a residential model I take the fan power (at full speed) out of the EIR and use the adjusted EIR for the modeled AC unit.  Then I add the fan power to the input stream through SUPPLY-KW/FLOW.  That way you get a truer unit power.

>

> Best regards,

> for KEMA USA, Inc.

>

> Glenn C. Haynes, PE

> Senior Engineering Consultant

> DNV KEMA Energy & Sustainability

>

> Tel: (615) 783-2187

> 3200 West End Avenue, Suite 500

> Nashville, TN 37203

> USA

> glenn.haynes at kema.com<mailto:glenn.haynes at kema.com>

> Please visit our website: www.dnvkema.com<http://www.dnvkema.com>

>

> This message may contain confidential or private information.  If you are not the addressee, please return the message to its sender and delete it from your files.  Please consider the environment before printing this email.

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of RobertWichert

> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:48 AM

> To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org

> Subject: [Bldg-sim] SEER and Fan Energy

>

> This forum has discussed fan energy before, and since that time I have

> grappled with the concept of fan power, specifically how to avoid double

> counting fan power since even indoor fans are included in SEER ratings.

>

> I suppose that I should start by confirming that indoor supply and

> return fans are included in SEER ratings.  I have read the DOE 49 CFR

> Pt. 430, Subpt. B, App. M UNIFORM TEST METHOD FOR MEASURING THE ENERGY

> CONSUMPTION OF CENTRAL AIR CONDITIONERS AND HEAT PUMPS.  It seems clear

> in that method that indoor fans are included in the power and energy

> calculations.  If not, please let me know what I am missing.

>

> OK, if indoor supply and return fans are included in the SEER rating,

> then why would we put additional fan energy into our calculations?  Does

> EQuest, EnergyPro, E+, and all the rest do some math to subtract this

> out, and if so, how is that done?

>

> Sorry for the basic question, but I have thought about this a lot and

> haven't reached a comfortable solution.  At one point I thought that the

> SEER calculation did not account for indoor fans, but I now find that to

> be wrong.

>

>

> Your thoughts are appreciated.

>

>

>



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